Colorado Real Estate Market with Mark Ferguson of InvestFourMore

On this episode Jason Hartman starts with in-house economist Thomas to discuss inflation and how it is measured and manipulated. On the second segment of the show Jason hosts Mark Ferguson, founder of InvestFourMore. They talk about the northern Colorado housing market and the lack of inventory. They go into the best practices for rehab and how to work with contractors.

Investor 0:00
I really need to thank you and Sarah for being there for me, you guys could have easily said, This isn’t my problem. This is your problem. Your lack of due diligence is entirely your fault. And not done anything at all. But you guys have been there for me every step of the way. You responded on voxer at 342 in the morning, I know, it might have been 642 depending on where you were, but honestly, who works at that time. So just the fact that you guys were there for me. I appreciate it so much.

Announcer 0:31
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties. 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:22
Welcome to Episode 1175 1175. I’m here with our in house economist Thomas and we want to talk to you about one of my very favorite topics in the intro portion today. And that is chocolate. No, it’s not chocolate, real estate investing. No, it’s not real estate investing. It’s inflation. You know, I talk often about inflation induced debt destruction. One of my favorite topics, it really is the hidden wealth creator. And at our last meet the Masters event, we presented the big boring idea and that big boring idea was our own a return on amortization. And, you know, we try to ferret out some of the unique things that other people really aren’t talking about the multi dimensional nature of income property, that really, really creates a fantastic return for you. Of course, inflation induced debt destruction is one of those things. You won’t see it on any performer, not even our performance. But it is a beautiful and incredible thing. Thomas, how you doing today? I’m doing well. How are you? Good. Good to have you. So how does inflation work?

Thomas 2:38
Oh, yeah, and simple terms. What the federal government does or what other entities that track inflation do is they go out and they sample a whole bunch of prices, and then they wait those prices and convert it into an index. They’re really only the sampling and then there’s the waiting. The most

Jason Hartman 2:53
common index is the CPI, the consumer price index, and listeners should Know that there’s more than one version of the CPI, which is interesting, but we don’t need to go down that rabbit hole today. But the other sort of commonly referred to thing that I hear economists say Thomas is something they call core inflation, or the core rate. And I think it’s worth going down that rabbit hole for just a moment. So Thomas, what are your thoughts on core inflation or the core rate?

Thomas 3:29
Yeah, so core inflation is prices with food and energy excluded. And the reason why analysts exclude food and energy is theoretically they are more volatile than other prices, whether they are more volatile or not is a is a separate question. But in general, analysts like to exclude them,

Jason Hartman 3:52
right, right. I wouldn’t even give them that that they are more volatile, but he can’t exclude them because there are huge Significant I mean, nobody listening can live without food or energy. So it seems kind of ridiculous that there would be any really even any mention or much mention of core inflation or the core rate, you know, try going to the grocery store and saying you’d like to pay the core rate, you know, for your groceries, you can’t do it. But one of the other things, I think it’s worth just bringing up again, and you know, I’ve talked about this on past episodes, but not lately. And that’s the way the consumer price index the CPI is, is manipulated. And there are significant motivations for the powers that be to manipulate the index. And this is not only a US thing, of course, it’s every government around the world, every reporting agency around the world, every statistical methodology around the world, because of course, government payments, whether they be welfare benefits or government employees, and I’m not just talking about US government, our index to inflation. Number one, and number two, in order to make the populace the voters feel better about their life. They want to make it seem like inflation is lower than it really is. So I played and you know, I really got to play this as a flashback Friday episode again. I’ve got to find that episode, but I thought it was great. Tom Keane, who is on Bloomberg did a great piece where he interviewed one of the Fed Chairman and it’s that guy who was only on for a short time. I believe it was in the late 70s it was I think it was right before Volker email or maybe a Robert was a Robert Miller or something. I don’t even know his name. He was it was such a short time, right. Was that him? I don’t remember his first name, but

Thomas 5:43
it was Miller and he was a businessman.

Jason Hartman 5:45
Yeah, yeah. I think TOM KEAN interviewed him if I could be mistaken. And maybe I’ve even got the wrong guy. This was years ago. I played this on the podcast. I actually got the recording from Bloomberg and play that clip on the show because was so insightful, because it talked about how there was a lot of pressure to start manipulating the inflation index at a time when inflation was high and somehow suddenly it it got lower magically. So the three major ways they are being manipulated into believing inflation is is lower than it really is our substitution waiting and hedonic. Now you mentioned waiting, right? But there’s there’s really those three ways substitution waiting and hedonic. So substitution just says, Hey, if the price of beef goes up, they think everybody will just switch to chicken but you know, maybe you think chickens a dirty bird and you don’t like chicken, right? So you really have the beef inflation rate, waiting. I’ll let you talk about that a little bit because you brought it up. Tell us a little bit more about waiting.

Thomas 6:55
Oh, waiting just as they go out and sample what people spend their money on. And they say Will you spend 25% 30% on your home mortgage or your housing, you say spend 20% on your food. And you know, the rest of the way it’s transportation 15 20%. And those weights make up the index,

Jason Hartman 7:15
right? So they just decide what weighs more in the index and whatever weighs more, maybe if it doesn’t inflate as much, it has more weight. So it it makes the rate the overall inflation rate look lower because of the waiting. And so that’s a good point. And by the way, Thomas, you mentioned housing, which I think is interesting, because they use this rather esoteric metric called the I think it’s called the rental equivalent rate or something what, you know, owners equivalent owners equivalent rent. Yeah. Do you know much about that? I talked about it before on the show, but I can’t remember the interesting gymnastics they used to calculate that one.

Thomas 7:59
Yes, almost. There’s equivalent rent is basically the average rent across the country for a given month. Just a certain size of home. Right, right.

Jason Hartman 8:09
And you know, that varies so much based on location and, you know, market segment housing type. I mean, wow, that’s a that’s a tough one. It really really is. Let’s just take a quick stab at hedonic here for the listener, so hedonic. I love that one. And I don’t know what you think about it, Thomas, because we’ve never discussed hedonic, but the root of that is the word hedonism, which is seeking pleasure, right? We all know what hedonism is, hopefully, the concept being how much pleasure Do you get out of an item that you buy? And so the example I use, when I talk about this in depth in the creating wealth conference that I do, in that one day event, is a computer. So every couple of years, I buy a new laptop, and you know, it’s funny thing, the laptop Always cost me about 20 $800 when I get the top of the line laptop, and I always buy the whatever the best one is they have, and it never seems powerful enough, because they keep making the software demand more processing power. So it seems like you never get ahead, but that’s another discussion. But if the speed of that processor is double the speed of the one I bought a year or two earlier, and the price is the same, they will assume if a computer is twice as good as the last one, that I really only paid 1400 dollars for it. But the reality is I didn’t I really paid 20 $800 for it. Now, of course you could adjust that for inflation. But over the course of that fairly short time period, it wouldn’t be that significant. But that’s the concept of hedonic x. And what I hate about hedonic indexing, even though there’s an argument that is logical, right, and I see that side is that it says to our We are really entitled to progress. I mean, let’s think about it, let’s think if they had dynamically indexed every item on earth since the invention of the wheel, or, or the invention of the electric light bulb, or one of these, you know, hugely significant inventions of any type. And they said, Well, you know, you used to light your house with an oil lamp. And that used to catch the house on fire, and now your LED light is thousands of times better than that old oil lamp. Of course, that’s true. But you don’t get to say that humanity is not entitled to progress, right. And that’s what hedonic indexing does. It takes the progress entitlement away from us, and gives it to the inflation index and says, oh, inflation is really much lower because we’ve had progress. Well, I hope we’ve had progress. Don’t we all expect progress, you know, this is the evolution of human thought and market innovation and capitalism that allocates resources so well, people out there chasing their own dreams and hate their own greed to make the world a better place. Right. And onyx is just a kind of a crazy one. Any thoughts on that?

Thomas 11:15
It’s amazing, right? The computer example. Basically, that means that you experience deflation of 50% Oh, yeah. Oh, wait, yeah, right, right, your computer went from 2800 to 1400. So prices went down by 50%. We’ve

Jason Hartman 11:28
had 50% deflation in two years. So now, what happens is it depends how much weight they give that particular item that sonically indexed in the overall consumer price index. And so there you see it, folks, there you see this massive amount of manipulation in the index. And what’s interesting is we all feel better in so many ways because a lot of things truly are deflating and price, the business systems, the internet, all of this stuff, the supply chains have become so much more efficient manual Factoring more efficient, better in so many ways. And so it feels better. But you know, what’s massively inflated? Is the assets the asset prices have massively inflated. So the cost of a house is so dramatically much higher. And then you’ll see these idiots who talk about well, houses nowadays are bigger and better Okay, well, we should hedonic Lee index those, but they never consider Thomas, the density of housing, the fact that we all live like packed rats now, right on top of each other, whereas before, you know, everybody used to have a one acre lot. And so things have definitely changed. You know, the density, the packing density of houses is much, much tighter than it’s ever been in history. So a lot of stuff there. But let’s end it and get on with the rest of our show. With just talking for a moment Thomas about inflation and do step destruction the hidden wealth creator, income property investments, Many of you have heard me talk about this many of you listening have been to my live events, where I’ve shown this fantastic chart that shows the typical person on a 30 year mortgage a 30 year fixed rate mortgage, literally got paid to borrow the money. They got paid. They thought they were borrowing and the example I give at 7.37%. But over the course of the three decades that they were paying on that mortgage, inflation and tax benefits, literally caused them to get paid paid negative interest rate of 1.16%. Plus, they got to live in the house for free. They got paid to borrow the money. It’s magic. It’s the closest thing to magic we really get. But I don’t know, you know, in our upcoming Savannah venture Alliance mastermind retreat, you know, Savannah is largely considered a haunted place. So we might see some ghosts there. Maybe that’s kind of magical. I don’t know. But, but inflation induced death destruction is a phenomenal magic thing. It really is. Let’s wrap it up with fat Thomas. Any last thought before we go to the rest of our show. Now good talking to you. Alright nation is a magic thing. I agree. As long as it’s on your side. That can be bad magic too. Great way to put it. Yeah, most people get hurt by inflation. But with our strategies that we’ve outlined over the years, on this show, and at our live events, it is magic and it works for you, not against you. So put inflation on your side with income property investments. Thomas, thanks for joining me. It’s my pleasure to welcome Mark Ferguson to the show. He is the founder of invest for more. He is a primarily a home flipper. He is in northern Colorado. Mark, welcome. How are you?

Mark Ferguson 14:58
I’m great. Thank you for having me on the show.

Jason Hartman 15:01
Yeah, yeah, it’s good to have you. So first off, how is the market? And what are your thoughts on the real estate market and the economy in general? Maybe

Mark Ferguson 15:10
it’s always tough to know, I think we are definitely seeing a slowdown in my area. Colorado has been one of the hottest markets in the country. You know, I’m in Greeley, Colorado, which is north of Denver a little bit, and our median price in 2011 was 110,000. And our median price right now is over 300,000. Wow, that was amazing.

Jason Hartman 15:31
Now distinction, though, let’s make sure we don’t get people thinking that home prices have tripled their they haven’t. It’s just the median home price has changed. So that doesn’t mean they’ve tripled in value. Okay, so I just want to make sure people understand that but feel free to comment on what appreciation has been like,

Mark Ferguson 15:52
you know, it has actually tripled in some neighborhoods or more, you know, some of the lower end properties. You could buy a $30,000 property right after the crash. In those houses are worth close to 200,000 right now.

Jason Hartman 16:04
But that’s not really the same house that house has been rehabbed now, right? A little bit. It’s, it may be see this is what’s so deceiving, right? There’s all these market distortions and people don’t really, you know, you got to peel the onion to understand it, right? The investor market that has just driven the market for so many years now, coming out of the great recession has fueled this boom and construction. And, you know, listen, I’m a hard money lender to Okay, so I I know the deals because I’m the one financing them, you know, a lot of times and you know, rehabbers will come in, they’ll buy that $30,000 house, they’ll put 60 grand into it, resell it to the first investor. And then a lot of these neighborhoods have been really upgrading substantially. And you know, they’ve been in different parts of the country, they’ve been gentrifying, and you know, there have been lots of improvements to the house. So even if you take the same property dress and follow it through time. It doesn’t mean that’s actual appreciation, there’s been added value to those properties a lot of times now, not always. But I mean, I guess the way you could most accurately tell what’s going on in the market would be to take a condo that can’t really be very improved. You can only improve the inside of it right, not the outside. And in a way, that would be almost a more accurate barometer. I don’t know, maybe not, but toughts stream of consciousness here. Sorry.

Mark Ferguson 17:33
No, I agree with that, too. And a lot of those properties were rehabbed. But even some of the condos you know, you could buy condos for 60 70,000. And those are worth 200,000 today, so it’s been crazy here. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 17:45
Okay, good. So the market is cooling down. Now, when you say the market, do you mean all price ranges? Do you mean certain price ranges dice that up for us?

Mark Ferguson 17:55
I think all markets are slowing down but it’s definitely slowing down more in the higher price ranges. You know, the starter homes, anything below 300,000. But we were seeing multiple offers, you know, contracts way above list price. And that is really stopped, you know, seeing one offer, it’s taken a couple of weeks for houses to sell, which is still a couple

Mark Ferguson 18:13
weeks. You gotta be kidding.

Mark Ferguson 18:18
Yeah. So we had record low inventory for like six years in a row. And we’re seeing that creep up now too. So I compared stats from last year versus this year in the last month. And we have about 30 to 40% more inventory, longer days on market, and just from the feel of selling my own houses, it’s definitely kind of leveling off, I would say.

Jason Hartman 18:38
Yeah. Now that begs the question, if things are slowing down, and it’s leveling off, why isn’t there any inventory of properties to buy in the lower priced side of the market? It’s just still dry everywhere. There’s nothing but yes,

Mark Ferguson 18:57
I think part of that is that well here is a little different. Because it’s hard to build houses in Colorado, people think there’s all this land available and there is, but water is really expensive here. Land is really expensive. And they aren’t building low end houses here. You know that I think the builders see hey, there’s more profit margin on this $500,000 house. I’m going to build a couple of those instead of build 20 smaller houses in we just have not seen building take off like it did pre crash when we saw everything fall apart. Right? Right.

Jason Hartman 19:28
So when you say water is really expensive. Are you talking about water rights?

Mark Ferguson 19:32
water taps water, right. So if you’re building a brand new house here and you want to buy a water tap for just a quarter acre lot, you’re probably looking at 30 to $40,000 for that tap.

Jason Hartman 19:43
Yeah. So that is expensive, and that limits development. Now, I’ll give you an interesting stat. I just read a report a couple of days ago, and I couldn’t believe this. This is really quite startling because this is not appreciation per se you It’s just Well, it’s exactly what it says it’s cost of construction. Okay. And the cost of construction for a like kind single family home over the last six years has increased by 31%. That’s really staggering. I mean, to build the same house six years ago would cost you, you know, now it cost you 31%, more Six years later. I mean, that is mind boggling. All the prices of all those ingredients of a home all those commodities, and put them together and assemble them. 31% more, you know,

Mark Ferguson 20:34
wow. Let’s try believe it.

Jason Hartman 20:37
Now, now, it’s amazing. So when you’re flipping, are you always rehabbing your properties or sometimes just flipping without a rehab

Mark Ferguson 20:44
95% of the time, we’re rehabbing. So there’s a few houses that we’ve sold without doing a rehab, but it’s pretty rare. And we’ve done a few where we’ll do real minor rehabs to get them you know, FHA ready, but most of the houses we’re doing, we’re spending 20 to $50,000 on the rehabs

Jason Hartman 21:02
now now, okay. And that rehab cost. I mean, I remember post Great Recession, there were little minor rehabs, you could do a rehab for seven to $15,000. That just seems virtually impossible anymore. I mean, it all depends what you do. But Wow, the rehab costs have gone up dramatically.

Mark Ferguson 21:23
Yes, in Nikki is my project manager and she helps manage my contractors and keep track of stuff. And she always makes fun of me because I’m still stuck, you know, a few years ago or even 10 years ago, when you could do a full rehab for a scene like 15,000 she’s like, you can’t do that you’re out of your mind is gonna cost us 30,000. So it’s Yeah, labor is gonna materials have gone up. Just everything has gone up so high,

Jason Hartman 21:45
and it’s really amazing. Okay, good. Talk to us about whatever you want to talk about for a moment. I’ve sort of driven the questions here, but just, you know, what do you want to tell the listeners,

Mark Ferguson 21:56
I think, you know, there’s a lot of talk about the market, what it’s going to do what’s not Do I definitely think we’ll see a slow down, we can even see a decrease. I don’t think we’ll see a crash like we did last time. I just think there’s so many investors out there. And the lending guidelines are so much stronger, that we won’t see a crash like that for a really, really long time. What happened

Jason Hartman 22:15
during the Great Recession was really a once in a lifetime event. I mean, you know, very few people are still alive, or at least they’re not they weren’t adults during the Great Recession, the Great Depression, I should say. So, you know, that’s sort of a once in a lifetime type of event. But certainly there will be minor recessions and cycles in the market, no question about it. And what’s interesting about it on the left to get your take on this mark, is what do you think will happen to rents? I mean, we find when interest rates go up, and affordability declines, it strengthens rents. So the long term buy and hold investors really benefit from a market slowing down a bit thoughts.

Mark Ferguson 22:52
Yeah, I would agree with that. Because when we had the great recession, you know, a lot of places didn’t even see decrease rents. They’re actually a lot More renters because they lost their homes in rent, you know may have gone down in some areas, but it wasn’t this huge crash in not every investor went bankrupt. And I just think you know if people realize, Hey, you know, it is a little scary to invest in anything, but you’ve got to get over this fear mindset and really just look at the fundamentals. I love long term rentals. I wish I could buy more of them here but our markets just the rent to value ratio is not suitable for residential properties anymore. I just think you know, people need to just not be afraid to get out there and invest even if it’s not the perfect market.

Jason Hartman 23:32
Yeah, okay. Good, good stuff back on to what you want people to know and what you want to tell people

Mark Ferguson 23:38
I love to educate people I love to teach people I started a blog investfourmore.com that’s invest. fo you are mo Rei calm, just to talk about my rentals, how to finance them, you know, talking about my flips, have videos before and afters of everything and also talking about starting a real estate brokerage, which I did this year. So I just love to educate people. Show them what I’ve done, give them some tips along the way. And I’ve written a few books about it as well. So I’m happy to give out free information or if people you know, are looking for other coaching, we have a few programs as well. And I just love, love seeing people succeed.

Jason Hartman 24:14
Talk to us about some of the best practices on rehabs and how you can really keep the cost down. And listeners, this doesn’t just apply to rehabbers per se. This also applies to tenant turns, your properties that are aging, and you need to make some upgrades to them over the years, things like that. Just share with us some of the best practices on managing contractors, which is frankly difficult. There’s no question about it, and getting good prices and making them keep their promises which is a whole art and science in and of itself. Yes, you can tell I’ve been through this before

Mark Ferguson 24:54
with my cynicism. Yes, great question. And, and there’s so many things to go over, but one thing To save price, you know is an art to figure out what to repair not to repairs, it’s really easy to make a house look amazing on HGTV if you spend $100,000. The tough part is making it look, you know, decent on a budget. And so we love to shop at Home Depot, we have a managed pro account there. So we buy in bulk to get you know, they have a sale on vanities, we might buy 15 of them and store them in our storage area. And just working really close with the contractors, we buy all the materials. So I pay for the materials, the contractors can’t say, Oh, I need you know, 50% up front to pay for materials because I’m paying for them. So that helps a ton. When we search for contractors. We’re very careful about how we interview them. We’re almost like interviewing for a job where we might place an ad on Craigslist, give them specific instructions on how to email us what to email us. If they do that right then we’ll give them a questionnaire and that eliminates probably 75% of the people because they’re not willing to answer a few questions or send us a resume or give us information that we need. And we figure if they can’t do that we can’t trust them to work on our houses. And then as far as getting them to do you know what they say they do. We are at the properties once a week during an active rehab, if not more, just there all the time making sure they’re working. And you know, we have a bid, we have a contract with them. But really, it’s more about trust and the people you work with, because if they don’t want to follow a contract, you’re pretty much gonna have to sue them to get any money out of them. They know that we know that it’s more about trust there is about your contract or anything written down.

Jason Hartman 26:32
Yeah, I agree. And I I’d say it’s even more about making sure that the incentives are aligned. And there’s a real art to this. I mean, it’s these been hard lessons for me to learn over the years. You know, you can write everything all over a contract, but the contract is just too hard to enforce. What matters is, can you make incentives align, in other words, progress payments, understanding what is expected On those progress payments, and so forth, any any thoughts on that, and you know how you how you structure those contracts,

Mark Ferguson 27:06
what we’ve usually done is we’ll pay 25% up front. And when the job is a percent done, we’ll pay another 25%. And when it’s all the way done, we pay the rest. And when I mean all the way done, it’s blue tape, they’ve come back and fixed everything, you know, everything’s clear to go. And that’s really helps just make sure they’re motivated. And we also have hired will have four full time employees now who are either handyman or contractors who we pay hourly, which is just amazing. I love having complete control, and they do whatever you want. We can use all their subs. It’s just been awesome.

Jason Hartman 27:43
Yeah, okay, good. How do you decide what to do and on property mean, you know, rehabs can go all over the board, you can get the property and just replace everything and do everything. Or you can do some minor. I’ll call it lipstick on a pig. It was the old saying goes You make the right decision. How do you arrive at that decision in terms of what to do,

Mark Ferguson 28:06
a lot of it starts with the systems in the house. So I mean, we’ll always have our electrician go in our hbic guy, our plumber, and make sure the house is safe. everything’s working right. So you know that electrician has to tear down drywall that’s going to dictate how much work we do and how far we go. Hopefully, we try and find houses where less is more, we can do some electric, some plumbing hbic the roof, but on the inside, we’re very rarely changing floor plans or tearing out walls. We replace a lot of kitchens, but we can replace the kitchen at Home Depot, you know, for around $7,000 all in, but we’re not tearing out the wall and moving electrical and moving heating vents to do that we’re replacing the kitchen where it is and we just try and do minimal repairs that look really good. So we focus on kitchens, bass, light fixtures, paint and flooring in whenever I get into the huge rehab. We’re doing addition for really changing the floor plan. That seems to be where we run into the nightmares things take forever. We go over budget and it’s just usually not worth the hassle. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 29:10
Okay. What about the concept of how much value will that household on the rehab? Making a larger rehab sometimes makes sense if the neighborhood will support it right. But sometimes a neighborhood won’t support a high end rehab. And you want to just do something basic,

Mark Ferguson 29:28
great question and a lot of our houses you know, we’re selling them from 270,000 to 400,000, which is actually the low end of our market. And so we are not going all out on materials. Some houses might get granite but a lot of them get the prefab Home Depot, laminate counters. You know, we’re doing not the bottom of the barrel appliance package, but you know, next up maybe a little nicer in the cabinets. We’re not spending a ton of money on the cabinets. Because most of these houses were making them nice enough where they’re selling at the top of their neighborhood. If we spend 10 or 20,000, more, we’re not going to get any of that back. You know, we’re already seeing pushback from appraisers on a lot of these deals. And we have to be very careful that we’re not over improving for the neighborhood. So, all the time we’re conscious, okay, how much can we spend where we’re close to the top, but we’re not pushing the barrier, because those appraisers will come in and just, you know, shoot us down every time. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 30:21
okay. Okay, good stuff. Well, let’s wrap it up. Anything else you want to say? It sounds like you’re still very excited about long term, buy and hold income property investing? It’s good to hear I know, a question. Actually, before we do that wrap up question. Let me ask you about your shopping center, you did a strip center, right? Is that is that your only retail deal? How’s that going?

Mark Ferguson 30:42
So I bought 15 residential properties from 2010 to 2015. In rent evaluations were great. Then our prices got so high, you really couldn’t cash flow with those anymore. And so I started buying commercial in 2017. And I bought four kind of smaller properties last year. And then yes, I bought a 68,000 square foot strip mall this year that has a grocery store coffee shop or restaurant and then actually opened my own office and one of the vacant spaces. And it has been awesome. We had a really good deal on it, which was the first really selling point on it, but just the cash flow has been great is a triple enly so the tenants pay all the expenses and it’s been making more money than we thought been less work than we thought and it’s just been a fantastic investment.

Jason Hartman 31:28
Okay, so that’s when you say commercial you mean retail,

Mark Ferguson 31:32
right? Not apartments. Yes. Go like one of my commercials like industrial little shop area. We’ve been an office building one of them. I just bought a restaurant actually two days ago that’s vacant that we’re going to rerun so yes, straight, you know, retail restaurant industrial, not apartment buildings.

Jason Hartman 31:50
Right? Sounds like the secret to that deal was really the buy side, right? Just getting this deal buying it.

Mark Ferguson 31:56
And so even though I’m an agent and a broker, I am not a specialist. Commercial. So I had teamed up with another commercial broker in the area who’s been doing it for 30 years. And let him be my broker. I paid him a commission and everything. And he kind of brought me a pocket listing on this deal. And that’s how that came about. Okay,

Jason Hartman 32:15
good. So, that was sort of luck of a draw. Right? You got that? You know, off market deal, right?

Mark Ferguson 32:21
Yes. And in dealing in the commercial world versus the residential, it’s so different. There’s Oh, it’s

Jason Hartman 32:27
massive. A lot of

Mark Ferguson 32:29
Yeah, listings. It’s more about who you know, then what you can do yourself. It’s, it’s crazy. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 32:36
no question about it. Good. Good stuff. Okay. So back to our wrap up question. Just any thoughts before you go? gave out your website already, but just just wrap it up for us with any closing thoughts,

Mark Ferguson 32:48
just happy to be on the show love to help people. Like I said, the blog is a great place. If you want to learn more, you can always email me [email protected] and then we have a pretty robust YouTube channel too, with 30,000 supporters. Drivers where I show all my properties and give other advice is just to search for investor more on YouTube and you’ll find that there too.

Jason Hartman 33:06
Fantastic. Thanks Mark.

Mark Ferguson 33:08
Thank you happy to be on the show and really enjoyed it.

Jason Hartman 33:12
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