George Gilder’s on Economic Theory and Tal Ben-Shahar on The Happiness Studies Academy

Jason Hartman starts the show with an update on Meet the Master’s keynote speaker George Gilder. He goes into a new idea on economic theory and how he’ll present it during the event. Later on the show, Jason hosts Tal Ben-Shahar, co-founder of The Happiness Studies Academy and best-selling author of Happier and the new book, Short Cuts to Happiness: Life-Changing Lessons from My Barber. They have a wide discussion of happiness- how is it measured, predictors of it, and how generations differ in their pursuit of happiness.

Investor 0:00
started listening to the podcast did that you know for probably a couple years before I connected with your investment counselor Sarah, she did a great job of kind of holding my hand through the process. I’m probably one of the more needy clients she worked with, but ended up buying my first property in 2011 in Atlanta, and then waited a couple of few more years until my next one, but 2014 purchased in Memphis. And so that’s where I am at this point.

Announcer 0:30
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states. Hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors. Welcome to

Jason Hartman 1:21
Episode 1150 1100 and 50. This is your host Jason Hartman and today we have a 10th episode show where we are going to talk about something of general I’m not going to say interest but super high importance. We are going to talk about shortcuts to happiness with our guest tal Ben Shahar. Great interview, I think you’ll really enjoy this and get a lot out of it. You can kind of hack everything in life, right? You can hack happiness, so why not do that. So we’ll talk about that today. Our upcoming meet the Masters event we are totally sold out of VIP tickets, but we still have a few Actually, I can tell you we have exactly 10 seats left, because two more just registered a moment ago. hope you’ll join us for that. It’s not far away. It’s just the week after this one, or the weekend after this one, I should say that, of course is in Newport Beach, California, beautiful place to have an event. So we have 10 seats left general admission and elite admission only. No, VIP left. Get your tickets for that at Jason Hartman, calm and I had another talk with George Gilder today one of our speakers for meet the masters. And before we get to the interview on happiness, I just thought it would be worth spending about three minutes with George. Just hearing a little bit about what he’s planning to talk about it meet the masters. He’s on a bit of a little mini speaking tour through Caltech and doing some other engagements in Pasadena with various science people. Then he’s going to come and speak at our event and so here is George Gilder I am very excited about the upcoming meet the Masters event. And of course we have George Gilder speaking. I had the pleasure of meeting him many years ago on a Forbes investor cruise in Scandinavia and Russia, and I’ve had him on the show several times. George, it’s great to have you on the speaker roster. Meet the Masters, we really look forward to it. Tell us about the new economic theory that you’re working on.

George Gilder 3:29
It’s really based on information theory. This is the theory that underlies the entire internet. Most of computer science it originated with could girdles incompleteness theorem, where it showed that every logical system is necessarily dependent on propositions that are not provable within the logical system and turning out Entering extended to computer science and said that all computers are necessarily dependent on outside or articles, or essentially programmers, Claude Shannon extended it to a whole wider net developed the definition of information that allowed you to calculate the capacity of any telecommunications channel. And Shannon also showed that his information theory was applicable to biology. And that’s cued me to the idea that if it’s applicable to all communications and computer technology, it certainly was the foundation for an economics that had real scientific roots rather than the somewhat speculative Keynesian theories that tend to prevail today. Very interesting. New economics based on information theory, and it’s being explored at the London I just got a communication from the London mathematical laboratory, which is an economic think tank and London, very influential with the Santa Fe Institute and other pursuits and they’re pursuing information theory of economics and they’ve discovered knowledge and power, which was my first book and that feels

Jason Hartman 5:30
you have such a fascinating history. I mean, you know, as a speech writer for speech writer for Reagan, I believe,

George Gilder 5:36
sort of, I mean, I helped write his acceptance speech at the republican convention and wealth and poverty was such a success at that point that I really couldn’t afford to write speeches. Yeah, and and I gave a hundreds of speeches for wealth and poverty and became President Reagan’s most quoted living Author, I remember that.

Jason Hartman 6:03
And I introduced President Reagan to Mike our chapter. And my cousin Josh Gilder wrote the Moscow State University speech. And that really began with me showing President Reagan a 64 k DRAM, from micron technologies, and explaining the capabilities, semiconductor technology Microchip Technology, and how it could enable a really successful strategic initiatives. Amazing how much things have changed since the 80s, and the talk of SDI and Hey, now we’ve got Trump talking about a spaceforce, a new division of the military. So it’s an amazing world. But George, I can’t wait to hear you speak at our upcoming event. It’s going to be great. You’re going to be talking about the big tech companies, namely Google how that sort of new relationship with Thoughts is changing and how you theorized that Google is now at the height of its power. That’s fascinating. I hope you’re right about that, by the way, and the information theory of economics, so I can’t wait to hear more and, and right before that you have a bunch of meetings and interviews and speeches at Caltech in Pasadena. Right? Right. Yeah. Good for come to Newport bit indirect light from beza, Dean and Caltech. Well, we look forward to seeing you in just over a week. Thanks again for joining us at the upcoming meet the Masters Well, thank you so much, Jason, for the invitation. It’s really exciting to meet the masters. So we will look forward to seeing all of you at meet the masters of income property, our 21st anniversary of this event. And by the way, if you tried to book a hotel room, the hotel room block closed, but if you talk to your investment counselor, they might be able to get you and accepted I know they were able to do that for one of our attendees just yesterday. So, you know, reach out to your investment counselor for that. The event starts at 9am. On Saturday morning, that’s when our conference begins. So registration at 830. We may open up an early registration on Friday evening. We haven’t made the decision on that yet, just to sort of lessen the strain on Saturday morning, but I think we’ll be a little more organized than we were last year on Saturday morning, so it should be fine. Come down, have a cup of coffee network. We start registration at 830 on Saturday morning, and then we go to about 6pm will take a break for two hours for dinner. And then we will have our band and we’ll have a concert on Saturday evening from about eight to 930 or so. And then we got to get you all to bed so you’re bright eyed and bushy tailed and on Sunday morning where we start again at 9am Networking at 8:30am. And we go to about six. So look forward to seeing you there in Newport Beach. But without further ado, let’s get to our 10th episode show and talk about shortcuts to happiness. Join us March 23 and 24th for the 2019 meet the masters of income property. Let’s break this down and look at some of the strengths of income property as an asset class. And I found that this event is really helpful because I am totally

Jason Hartman 9:26
a newbie to real estate investment. And so

Jason Hartman 9:29
I picked up so much information one

Jason Hartman 9:31
of the great things about it is it’s so fragmented, right? embrace the fragmentation. actually been learning a lot about the tax benefits to real

Jason Hartman 9:44
estate and a lot of I’ve been investing actually well over 10 years now. And I learned a lot of new things today. The other advantage of this weekend is networking. Meeting new property managers meeting new area specialists and seeing the product they have to offer that changes. Register now with Jason slash masters. It’s my pleasure to welcome tal Ben Shahar. He is the co founder of the happiness studies Academy and potential life. The New York Times best seller of happier learn the secrets to daily joy and lasting fulfillment and choose the life you want 101 ways to create your own road to happiness, and his newest book shortcuts to happiness, life changing lessons from my barber. Tell welcome How are you? I’m doing very well. Thank you. Good. It’s good to have you on. So here is a subject with talk about broad, wide ranging appeal, right? Who doesn’t want to be happier? Right? You actually participate in the I think it’s called the happiness summit. This is something believe sponsored by the United Nations. And this is where we see all those rankings of the world’s happiest countries, right?

Tal Ben-Shahar 10:53
Yes. So the United Nations for the past few years has looked into the happiest nations in the world. The findings are quite interesting. We don’t find the countries we expect to be at the top there so countries that regularly appear the top are Denmark, Norway, and then Colombia and Israel and Costa Rica. And the interesting question is is always why why these countries and not the wealthiest countries before began I get this, I totally get that they’re not the wealthiest but before we address Why are these to happiness?

Jason Hartman 11:29
I’d like to know how they rate such a thing. I mean, it’s a soft subject,

Tal Ben-Shahar 11:32
right? It is. Now that’s a very good and important question. If you’d asked me this question 30 years ago, I would have had a problems responding today though we have very good measures of happiness, some of them objective measures, we know we look at people’s brains, we scan them we know what a happy brain looks like. We know what a compassionate or a depressed brain looks like. While we mostly still today use questionnaires. There is a significant overlap correlation between or among the different measures, the direct brain measures, other physiological measures as well as the self report and you’re talking about

Jason Hartman 12:11
fMRI, you know, functional magnetic resonance and exactly Mr.

Tal Ben-Shahar 12:15
Eyes or fMRI, PET scans, he, jeez, they can all give us a hand. And you know, what’s it what’s very important when you do research is to use different methods, whether it’s direct brain scans, whether it’s self report, whether it’s other people reporting about levels of happiness.

Jason Hartman 12:34
How do you know what a happy brain is from a scan? How can a scan tell you that? Is it like a questionnaire and then the person gets into the machine and then you scan them and say, Okay, this person says they’re happy. And that’s what their brain do, how their scan looks? Is that what they do?

Tal Ben-Shahar 12:49
Yes, you could do that. However, the way people measure happiness levels is they look at what what areas of the brain are more active. So for example, we know that people with more activation neural activation that is in the left prefrontal cortex such as the front side of your, your brain, they tend to be happier people with more activation on the right actually tend towards depression.

Jason Hartman 13:13
That’s interesting. So So what is activation? Is? Does it just mean keeping oneself busy and engaged in life for does it mean something else?

Tal Ben-Shahar 13:22
No, it means that this place is is working, that the neurons there are firing. So, you know, just like you have you work at something, neurons are also working, they’re either on or off. And these particular neurons, particular areas of the brain are working well, that means you’re happier or less happy, or experiencing empathy or, or sadness. Okay. All right, go ahead. So the interesting thing about the finding of our national levels of happiness is that there’s only one thing that predicts happiness levels on a on a national level. And that is relationships. So countries that emphasize with the with the people emphasize social connections, real relationships where they prioritize it. These are the countries that are happiest. And again, these are the, you know, interestingly, in Denmark 93% of the population are members of social clubs. This could be this is active members could be in their church or Sailing Club or or my Zeon club, it actually doesn’t matter. But there are active members in countries like Israel and Colombia, you know, countries you wouldn’t expect people to be happy with all given the political issues that these countries had to have had to endure. In these countries, friendships and family relationships are very important are central to the ethos, and that’s why they’re among the happiest countries in the world consistently. In contrast, countries like the United States or the UK, Germany, Singapore, Korea, are far from being at the top of their ranking. Because relationships very often are taking a backseat to other pursuits. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Hartman 15:06
So are they taking a backseat to capitalism, then

Tal Ben-Shahar 15:09
not specifically to capitalism, specifically to success. And you know, people don’t realize, unfortunately that it is possible to have the best of both worlds. So to cultivate relationships and to be successful, in fact, in the in the long term, if you do focus on relationships, you will have more fuel more energy for the road ahead. Right, right. And those relationships also, you know, from maybe a business perspective, represent networking and connections, maybe, maybe they can turn out to do something for you in your career as well. But, hey, I guess maybe to broach this subject, everybody needs to get rich enough and successful enough to be able to afford to join a country club and then they’ll be happy, right? Well, that’s one way of looking at it. You don’t need to be a member of the most expensive Country Club right. Just having a nice dinner. At your, you know, local diner with friends or at home that generates just as much of what I’ve come to call the ultimate currency new the currency of happiness. Sure,

Jason Hartman 16:09
okay. Okay, so actually taking time for connection, drill down on that is there there’s got to be more to it, right? It’s not just about connecting and having relationships. I mean, what else

Tal Ben-Shahar 16:20
before I drill down, you can go, you know, from national level to to individual level. So like Harvard conducted by now a famous study over a period of 75 years where they followed their graduates as well as community members for 75 years. For most of them it was their entire life. And they collected literally millions of data points. And what they found was that the best predictor of both happiness as well as health, in other words, both mental and physical, health number one predictor relationships. Now the interesting thing about this industry where we can dig a little bit deeper The interesting thing was that it didn’t matter what kind of relationships meaning for some of them, it was a romantic partner whom they spend their life with. For others, it was, you know, family, For others, it was close friends. For others, it was business relationships. But these relationships were, here’s the thing, they were real, they were authentic. And this is especially important in today’s world, you know, unfortunately, 1000 friends and social media are no substitute for those, you know, one or two, intimate real

Jason Hartman 17:32
relationship means, in fact, it might be making you less happy, because there’s all kinds of studies, which I’m sure you are well aware of, that show that people that spend a lot of time on social media develop a lot of very envious traits, and it actually deepens separation from people. Oddly, you know, it’s sort of a double edged sword. I mean, it is good, but like anything in life, right, it needs to be kept in its place. I guess

Tal Ben-Shahar 18:00
Yes. So every Kleinberg, who’s at NYU is a sociologist has shown that the more time people spent on social media, the lonelier, they in fact are. So that’s one area, as you pointed out, that that leads to unhappiness. The second element that you also point to, is the social comparison. What do we see on social media? We see everyone being perfectly happy, right? With the perfect job, perfect family, perfect vacation, perfect life. And we compare ourselves to it and we fall short of that. And then this upward social comparison we engage in is making us miserable. But doesn’t

Jason Hartman 18:38
everybody know that? I mean, maybe it hits us at a different level, subconsciously versus consciously, right. Because I always I was like to say, you know, we live in an era where everybody is basically running their own self styled PR firm, and it’s pretty ridiculous and you talk about keeping up with the Joneses. It’s worse than ever now. You know, all the things people post You know, they, they sort of have a positive band because people don’t want to be negative and, and Hek negative people aren’t very attractive, right? So, you know, maybe we want to be attractive to each other and be positive about things, right. But the person who’s looking at their newsfeed has to know because they they’re probably doing it too. They don’t just think, oh, everybody else’s life is perfect, and my life is lousy, because I don’t post stuff like that. I mean, you know, I don’t

Tal Ben-Shahar 19:27
know, you know, yes, we know it on a on a conscious level. However, as Freud’s metaphor is, you know, the, the conscious is only the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, the subconscious he’s not doing that processing that you just went through. In other words, what’s happening is that that subconscious is thinking everyone is these having an amazing time and I’m feeling miserable. Right now that that is the inner implicit conversation going on. And unfortunately, it’s like, you know, you you look at the magazine covers or you know, a couple of my students have done research on this and salsa. theme and yet girls and women know that these are photoshopped images and that they’re only you know, a handful of you know, supermodels and yet this is what the subconscious is comparing them to, and it’s hurting their self esteem. Same with social media.

Jason Hartman 20:14
Tell us about your barber. What are some of these lessons that you learned from your barber?

Tal Ben-Shahar 20:18
Yeah, I must say the first lesson that I learned from my barber is that you can learn lessons from your barber. Okay. You know, for the past 30 years I’ve been an academic have delved into the academic journals and ancient texts and modern research. And here, you know, I went to my barber and I realized that I was actually feeling great after a haircut and great not just because he made me look better because he made me feel better. And I started writing a book about him and basically collecting his his pearls of wisdom over a period of two years, and many of these pearls of wisdom I then found similar ideas in Aristotle Lao Tzu 2500 years ago, or Marty Seligman and Sonja Lyubomirsky, were doing research in positive psychology today.

Jason Hartman 21:09
Talk to us about, for examples, a lesson on relationships from your barber.

Tal Ben-Shahar 21:14
So my barber again didn’t read the Harvard study on relationships or others, and yet he understood that in order to lead a happy life, he needs to, to spend quality time with people he cares about. Moreover, when we came into his salon phones were off, he encouraged us to be engaged with one another. And he didn’t need fMRI to show the impact of social media and social comparison. He understood it. So relationships was one thing the other thing was also interestingly silence and the value of silence. So there is one of my friends is who writes in the area of leadership talks about how silence is the sound of Thinking. And that’s so important. It’s so important for managers and leaders to spend more time in silence. And it’s not something that’s done enough because we feel very uncomfortable. You know, we even have the phrase, awkward silence. And yet these periods of silence are critical for self development and self growth. Yeah, I love what is that line from the Prophet by Kahlil Gibran. Of course, everybody knows the book. He says, you know, you talk when you cease to be at peace with yourself, talks about the importance of silence, so very, very good point. What else? So maybe another lesson add, how about anger? Does anger serve a useful purpose? Or is it all bad? You know, so anger, first of all, is natural. And, yes, it has an evolutionary reason and basis. However, most of the time when we get angry, it doesn’t serve us and you know, and reminds me one of the stories that I tell in the book about Ozzy is happened when I was having my hair cut in and a woman Walked into her haircut and she was saving. And Avi the barber answers What’s wrong? And she said, You know, I just got cut off by this idiot. And you know, I can’t believe you did that. And she went on and on. And then he says, Can I share with you? What would I do when when I’m cut off? And she said, Sure. And he said, you know, if I’m waiting for a parking spot, and the car comes out, and I’m about to go in, but then an SUV comes in, cuts me off and takes my spot. What I do then is and you know, we were waiting for probably I beat him up or something like that, because obviously strong guy says what I do is that I imagine that a cow just cut me off. Would you be right? Yeah. And we said, What? And you know, both of us were laughing. He said exactly, no, because if I think of a cow, I start laughing. I don’t get angry. Now, this is a very simple technique that Baidu I’ve been using, ever since. And it’s a technique where you didn’t know it, but there’s Actually research showing that we can’t experience two conflicting emotions at the same time. So I can’t experience amusement and anger or empathy and hatred at the same time. And then what happens? When you think of a common you experience amusement, you’re no longer angry at it and at that person, and it’s not worth being angry at the person and we can use this in a work situation when we’re with, with a client who’s upsetting us, or we can use it with our children when they upset us or our partner. So it’s a very simple and useful technique. Think of a cow cutting you off.

Jason Hartman 24:35
Yeah, okay. All right. Well, just the other day last week, a giant and I mean, giant and forgive me if I get it wrong, but I guess it wasn’t a Guana. I don’t know this huge prehistoric looking creature cut me off on the road and I had to wait for it to walk by. And it was a scary, ugly looking creature. But you know, I took a picture of it and thought who And I moved on. I didn’t get mad. If that was a person I might have. I admit, I was it. I was in a rush when it happened. And you know, I’m in Florida. So we have that kind of thing down here. And I would have probably, if nothing else sort of slapped my hand on the steering wheel, like, what is this guy doing? You know? So So yeah, that’s a that’s a good point. The cow, the cow is a good one. All right, what else? Maybe another topic area from your barber?

Tal Ben-Shahar 25:26
Sure. So one of the things that he often will talk about is raising children, and then he would bring it to the level of business as well. And one of those things was praise. Now, it’s very important, of course, to praise children, it’s important to praise our partner, it’s important to praise our employees. And yes, how we praise them is even more important because there’s research again, he didn’t know about this research he that he does this intuitively, this research by Stanford professor Carol Dweck, on praising and what she shows is that When we praise children, for example for how smart they are, or how beautiful they are, that’s actually unhelpful in the long term. Why? Because define praise for how smart I am, all I have to do is protect myself image, and then I won’t take any risks. And then I will not necessarily try, I will just try to avoid seeming not smart. In contrast, phrasing for effort for hard work, that’s helpful. It’s helpful for children. And it’s also helpful for employees. Because when I’m praised for hard work, I can always work hard, I can always invest, I can always work harder, or usually. And that’s helpful. And when I saw him, you know, praise His children for their effort rather than for their accomplishments or how beautiful or how smart they are. That was an important reminder of this research by Carol Dweck that can really make make a difference.

Jason Hartman 26:54
What are you praising them for real effort or is it more like the constant Up to the participation trophy. And,

Tal Ben-Shahar 27:03
you know, I got

Jason Hartman 27:04
up maybe maybe I’ll play devil’s advocate here for a moment. But it almost seems to me like we have, in many ways ruin degeneration. And I’m talking about the millennials, maybe the Gen Z after them to probably every generation thinks this about the one that comes after them to some extent. But we have just catered to these kids, we have made them feel good. We have told them, they’re great. And you know, a lot of them just aren’t that great. Okay, they’re really not putting forth a lot of effort. There are a lot of spoiled brats out there who do not exert themselves do not they’re not rigorous with themselves at all. I mean, it’s like does everybody just deserve a compliment all the time and, you know, an award for just showing up? I mean, you know, that sort of leads to the world owes me a living type of attitude, doesn’t it? I couldn’t

Tal Ben-Shahar 27:57
agree more. I think this is a huge issue. issue with the young kids. And then obviously, it spills over to the workplace later on when they leave home. Praise has to be first of all, it has to be real. If there was no effort, then obviously don’t praise for efforts. You know, they asked jack welch and I remember reading this article back in 2020. He was elected as the CEO, the manager of the 20th century, it was Fortune magazine. He was asked, What advice do you have for managers? And he said, My advice is learn to face reality. And if parents don’t teach their children to face reality, then they’re setting them up for failure, failure in the conventional sense, also failure, emotional failure, in the ultimate currency, parents role is to be a mirror to reflect reality for the children. So absolutely. First of all, based on reality, then if there was efforts and success, focus on the effort,

Jason Hartman 28:58
right, okay. Okay. So I guess Maybe the key to that is whether it be your, your friend, your partner, your kids, employee, whatever, you know, be sensitive enough to find the areas and maybe it takes some effort, right? Where they really are making an effort and then make the praise real. But don’t just arbitrarily do it. Because, you know, in a sense, that’s lazy on our part, isn’t it? When we’re just sort of arbitrarily saying, oh, you’re making such a great effort when they’re really not

Tal Ben-Shahar 29:31
lazy. And it’s also you know, it’s the easy way out, because, you know, Casey enjoy. So the short term when they’re told they’re good, but in the long term, we’re really hurting them and I see it so often. I see it with my students. I see it with also the young working adults.

Jason Hartman 29:47
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Let’s talk about a couple more questions here. Just before we wrap it up, is happiness a currency?

Tal Ben-Shahar 29:54
Yeah, it is a currency by which we take measure of our life whether we do it consciously or not, you know, if you ask someone if you give someone a billion dollars, but a billion dollars, and these are Martian dollars that you will never be able to actually use, then it’s worthless. However, in the same way, money is only worth if it can be translated into happiness. If I told you, I will give you a billion dollars now, but then you’re guaranteed misery for the rest of your life. Now, if you actually believe me that that’s true, you won’t take those billion dollars because ultimately what you want is happiness. The reason we want money is because we truly believe that it will make us happy again, beyond survival, of course, right. And that’s why I call happiness the ultimate currency. Because it’s the currency by which we ultimately take measure of our lives, every other currency, we translate explicitly or implicitly, to the currency of happiness

Jason Hartman 30:58
now, so I think people get Very off track and confuse their when they think somehow pursuit of money to any degree at all will make you unhappy. And that’s just such a silly idea. You know, they use these few examples they’ve heard well, money doesn’t buy happiness. Well, neither does poverty, right. But there is a prudent middle ground in there somewhere, isn’t there because you don’t want to be a slave to anything, you know, money should not be the master.

Tal Ben-Shahar 31:28
That’s right. So, basic needs are critical for happiness. You know, we talked earlier about national levels, happiness countries that are poor, contrary to what many people think they’re actually in general, very unhappy. They’re people who have no money and when you give them an extra $1,000 a month, money will make them happier. For sure. However, beyond basic means, additional money does not make us happier, right?

Jason Hartman 31:55
Yeah. What else should people know before you go? Just Any questions? My haven’t asked you

Tal Ben-Shahar 32:01
perhaps the first step to happiness is allowing in unhappiness to there’s a common misconception today that the happy life is a life devoid of painful emotions when in fact painful emotion, sadness, anger, envy, disappointing frustration, anxiety. These are all natural human emotions. We all experienced them. The question is what we do when we experience them, one thing we can do is reject them and chastise ourselves for experiencing them and then they only intensified it only grow stronger. In contrast, if we accept them, embrace them as part and parcel of our life of any life, in fact, then they don’t overstay their welcome. So it’s when we allow in unhappiness, embrace painful emotions as natural, give ourselves that permission to be human. That’s when we open ourselves up for pleasure and in fact, kaleo libran from Ukraine quoted earlier talks about that you were you were making me think of it you know, the deeper though. You know you cars, though. Yeah, go ahead and say that I can’t remember it but I do remember I don’t remember the exact quote, but it’s the deeper the sorrow the more open you are, the more you can accept and take in.

Jason Hartman 33:20
Yeah, the joy of life. I always found that interesting that the more hardship one and doers and you know, you don’t want to intentionally go out and endure hardship, obviously, right. But if you don’t have you know, some of that in your life, you just don’t have a reference point to appreciate when it’s good, do you.

Tal Ben-Shahar 33:40
The point also is that you learn a lot when you experience hardship, and one of my ex colleagues and our biston said the following she said never let a good crisis go to waste. Well run. rahm emanuel said that to in a political way. People didn’t like it. Right, and we learn and grow from hardship. Clay Christensen talks about how the best leaders are the ones who do experience hardships and difficulties earlier on in life. There’s actually a strong correlation between failure difficulties, hardships, and ultimate success. One of the sound bites that I repeat to my students, and to my children, as well as to my clients is learn to fail or fail to learn. There is no other way that how we learn how to walk. That’s how we learn how to eat. That’s how we learn to be in a healthy relationship. And that’s how we learn to manage. I couldn’t agree more. That’s excellent. And, you know, Seneca said one must wait until evening to see how splendid The day has been. So having that point of comparison, I mean, we’re just full of quotes today, aren’t we? Having that point of comparison is is very important.

Jason Hartman 34:54
Give us your website and wrap it up for us.

Tal Ben-Shahar 34:57
Yes, so my website is at tal Ben Shahar. De KLVMSHH and there you can find links to my books on leadership on happiness, as well as links to my online classes.

Jason Hartman 35:14
Fantastic tell thank you so much for joining us.

Tal Ben-Shahar 35:17
Thank you very much.

Jason Hartman 35:20
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