Brent Johnson of Santiago Capital on Gold Dollar Milkshake Theory

Jason Hartman is joined by Brent Johnson of Santiago Capital to discuss the “Dollar Milkshake Theory.” They look at the strength of the US dollar and how it compares to precious metals and other currencies. Brent gives his thoughts on MMT and what problems may occur. Jason and Brent end the show discussing how money is loaned into existence.

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Jason Hartman 0:29

It is my pleasure to welcome Brent Johnson. He is the CEO of Santiago capital. And he really does just a fantastic job of explaining macro economic concepts. You’ve probably seen him out there in the news media. And we’re going to dive in today and talk about a variety of things, not the least of which is a future of the dollar. And with all this money printing, a lot of people have questioned that but I would always ask you task, the Jason Hartman question which is compared to what and we’ll dive into that today, Brennan. Welcome, how are you? I’m good. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to talking to you and your listeners today. It’s good to have you. And you’ve probably explained this so many times. But Rumor has it You brought us a milkshake today. And

Brent Johnson 1:13

it’s actually $1 milkshake. And it seems to be one of your core theories or thesis. And I just like you to maybe explain that to the listeners very briefly, because I think it’s important for the rest of the conversation. Sure. So I’m happy to do that. You know, I have talked about it quite a bit, but it is really kind of central to the way I see things developing over the next several years. And it really goes back a couple years ago, and I did a presentation while I’d seen this movie called There Will Be Blood and it’s a movie about this kind of ruthless oil executive that will just do anything to beat his competitors. And towards the end of the movie, he was trying to buy a piece of land next to his that had oil on it, and the guy wouldn’t sell it to him. And finally, he just said, Well, you know what, I don’t even need you to sell it to me because I’m just going to stick a you know, Pipe down into the ground and Even though it’s on my side of the fence, I’m going to drink up your oil. Instead, I’m going to drink your I’m going to drink your milkshake. And so when I kind of started developing my thesis a couple years ago, I explained to everybody that even though the Fed had printed a bunch of currency, starting in 2009, the dollar actually rose in value over the last 10 years. So just because you print currency doesn’t necessarily mean that the dollar is going to fall, right, or that your currency is going to fall. And so the way I tried to explain it was the whole world is printing money. And they’re mixing this liquidity milkshake, for lack of a better word. But for several reasons, the US at the time, the predominant reason was higher interest rates. And we still have higher interest rates, but they’ve come down a lot. So it’s not as a key factor now, but at the time, we had a lot higher interest rates in the rest of world. And so I explained to that even though the rest of the world was doing the printing, we were sucking up all that capital into the United States. And as that capital flow to the United States, it goes into the United States dollar and it pushes the US dollar higher and it pushes us asset the US dollar asset prices higher. I largely think that’s what’s going to happen over the next call it two to three years, I think the rest of the world, US included is going to do fiscal spending, they’re going to do QE, they’re going to do mmt. They’re going to flood the market with liquidity to try to counteract the deflationary forces. And I think largely what’s going to happen is the US is going to be the recipient of capital flows. And we’re going to drink the rest of the world’s milkshake for lack of a better word. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 3:24

yeah, it’s a really good metaphor. And you know, Brent mmt, modern monetary theory has gotten a lot of interest lately. I don’t know if it’s sort of the over entitled socialist element of the millennial generation that’s brought that on or, you know, Bernie Sanders or, or what it is, but when so many people owe the US government money or the US companies money, and then taxpayers owe the US tax agency, the IRS money, the only way they can repay those debts is in dollars. So that creates this sort of cycle, this vicious circle, if you will, of strength for the dollar, which should be getting debased. A lot of people would say, gold bugs would certainly say that. Maybe speak to that a little bit if you can.

Brent Johnson 4:12

Yeah, sure. So and I think one, I don’t want to criticize anybody else’s thinking. But I but one of the common mistakes that I’ve seen other people make is that they analyze the US and analyze the US dollar in a vacuum. In other words, they say, we have all these debts that we can never pay off, we’re going to have to print all this currency or do all the stimulus in order to ease the burden. If you add more supply, that’s typically bad for the price. So the price of the dollar comes down. But what they forget or what they don’t properly analyze is that everything’s relative. It’s a relative world, right? fiat currencies all float against each other. And the fact is, is that all the other countries are in the same situation that we are, and all of these other countries have these debts that they can’t pay. All of these other countries are having deflationary pressures so they’re having to print currency. See as well. And what really unintel a new system is designed or Intel, a new alternative to the dollar is established. There’s no other place to go. Other than the US dollar, people will talk about gold and people will talk about a basket of assets or maybe a commodity backed pool. And yeah, that that that’s theoretically possible, but it’s just not a reality today, at least not a reality that global leaders and politicians are ready to move to at this point. Now at some point they might be but right now that they’re not. And so what you have is when you have a situation where the dollar is the dominant currency, all of the debt is actually demand for dollars. If you take if you take out a loan, yeah, you basically create a demand because you have to pay that loan back. You have to service the debt and then you have to pay that loan back in the future. Exactly. So that’s so that is demand for the dollar. And then what even less people realizes that there’s $2 markets, there’s the US dollar domestic market, and then there’s the offshore dollar. dollar market and that’s called the euro dollar market. Now that’s different than the euro currency. I talked to a lot of people and they’ll get the euro currency, right? Can the euro dollar confused? It’s basically just dollars that exists outside the United States. And in that market, there’s at least 12 or 13 trillion that’s owed. And depending on kind of how you slice and dice it and go into the dark pools in the shadow banking system, it can easily be double that amount. So there’s an incredible amount of demand for dollars outside the United States. And when you look at other currencies, there’s not typically a huge demand for other currencies outside their markets. What I mean by that is, there’s not a whole lot of demand for Brazilian reality outside of Brazil, right? There’s not a lot of demand for euros outside of Europe. There’s not a lot of demand for Chinese Yuan, outside of China. But there is huge demand for dollars outside of the US. So when people focus on the supply of dollars and that we’re increasing the supply via QE and that’s going to weaken the dollar. I feel like they’re just looking at half the equation. I actually put something out the other day it was It was a picture representation of Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, where, you know, somebody’s looking at the wall, and there’s a light shining behind them. And all they see is the shadows on the wall. Right to them. That’s the whole world. Right. Right. Yeah. Because that’s all they see. But the real worlds behind them. Yeah. And I kind of feel like when when people have just the

Jason Hartman 7:16

light projecting the shadow, right, right. Yeah.

Brent Johnson 7:19

Right. And I kind of feel like the people that are just focusing on the Fed and the Fed programs, they’re just looking at the shadow on the wall. They’re not looking at the whole world. And the demand for the dollar is so high for a number of reasons. And that, in my opinion, the dollar still going to go much higher because the demand will outstrip the supply.

Jason Hartman 7:36

Yeah, I agree. So just a couple comments that are sort of maybe interesting. One is that the thinking about the monetary system, as we’ve all come to learn how it works, which is this crazy, House of Cards, smoke and mirrors game of deception, and you know, you talk about magic tricks. By the way, I want to ask you about that magic trick you show in one of your books. Free Speech patience. I’ll get to that in a moment. I gotta get the secret about one. It’s amazing. But we realize that money is lent into existence, this weird concept. It really takes a while to get your head around and years ago, I got my head around it, right. That’s fractional reserve banking era thinking, but also the fact that dollar demand is lent into existence, the dollar strengthening is lent into existence, or it’s created by a taxing agency by the IRS. That’s right, one of those two. Okay, so with that said, Does modern monetary theory actually work? Or is it a pipe dream?

Brent Johnson 8:40

Well, it’s a little bit about the it’ll work for a while. Just like fractional reserve banking reward for a while and fiat currencies will work for a while, but eventually they’ll fail. Now, but these things can go on for a very long time, right, like decades or centuries. Yeah, right. I mean, there’s a famous interview with Doug Casey, who’s a longtime gobo he’s done On the show. Yeah, there’s a fantastic interview with him and Phil Donahue from 1980, where he goes through and lays out all the reasons that the dollar is going to fail. And he’s absolutely right. They will. But this is 40 years ago, right? Or 50 years ago, and it just ended. And it just hasn’t happened yet. So I think he’s right. I think it eventually will happen. But the point is, is these things take a long they can take a lot longer than you think that they can. I think the modern monetary theory is it’s really just the next step in you know, socialized government socialized spending, we’ve kind of gotten to the end of the the Keynesian monetary game, you know, the debts are so big now. It’s just almost impossible to continue this game. And so I think the mmt is just the natural progression. And I really, I hate the idea. Yeah, it’s coming. Right and you better just prepare for it. Yeah, no, I

Jason Hartman 9:47

agree. And so is universal basic income that’s coming to you if he asked me and all this stuff. Yeah.

Brent Johnson 9:52

The one thing I want to make clear to everybody is when I explained my dollar milkshake theory and that I think the dollar is going to get stronger, I think the United States economy’s gonna dominate the rest of the world over the next four or five years. This isn’t the American exceptionalism argument. This isn’t, this isn’t an argument that we deserve it or that we’re worthy of it and that we’ve done better than everybody else. That’s not it’s just

Jason Hartman 10:13

a practical argument.

Brent Johnson 10:14

It’s just a practice. It’s just the way it is. And I don’t necessarily like it, but but it you know, you shouldn’t necessarily invest for the way that you want things to be, you should invest for the way they’re going to be. And I just think this is the way it’s going to be

Jason Hartman 10:26

right. And speaking of not liking it or not being fair, the thing you didn’t mention is that the major product of any government is its currency, in my opinion, at least. And the way to force your product onto buyers, if you will, is to have the biggest military the world has ever known. That’s the reason that you know, among what you said, and that is the reason that the dollar is going to be the reserve currency for a lifetime. It’s just not going to be displaced very easily. You Yeah, we can we hear about Russia and Brazil are trading outside the dollar or China or whatever, you know, these are like little things. They’re just not a big deal. Yeah,

Brent Johnson 11:09

yeah. I mean, again, the reality is, is that I said, there’s several characteristics of this straw that we use to suck up the rest of the world’s capital. The US military is a very big one. Global reserve currencies are taken there, they’re not given, we’re not going to just hand it over. Right? Somebody would have to take it from us. And I just don’t see anybody that’s able to take it from us now. And then people will come back to me and say, well, the US hasn’t won a war in 50 years, you lose every war you enter. Well, I think that’s a little silly to say that.

Jason Hartman 11:36

I think that’s kind of like that’s kind of like litigation, it’s hard to really understand who’s winning and losing, even after a verdict. A lot of times, there’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes. So winning and losing artists obvious as it might seem right

Brent Johnson 11:50

when they show the Super Bowl and you know, the Jets are flying over and they’re singing the National Anthem, and they say coming to you from 180 military bases from around the world. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 12:00

I think it might be winning. Yeah, very interesting. So now bring us into gold. Most people would consider the Doug Casey Peter Schiff crowd there on one side gold bugs. And on the other side, there’s the people that sort of believe in the dollar hegemony, right? These two aren’t like these opposing forces necessarily that most people make. Or they tell us about Yeah,

Brent Johnson 12:27

this is kind of a big frustration of mine is that I’m a huge believer of gold. I’m a huge proponent of gold. And I know many, many people in the gold world, and they’re good friends of mine. And I think people in the gold world are among the most generous, well intentioned, hard working, all that kind of stuff. And I firmly believe that gold is going to go much higher in the years ahead. I think it’s going to at least $5,000 potentially higher than that. I just don’t necessarily think it’s going to happen tomorrow. A couple of years ago, when I started talking about the dollar getting stronger. A lot of my friends in the gold world just they didn’t like it and they would send me message or text messages? or they’d call me and say, Brent, well, how can you say this? You know that the dollar is a horrible currency and, and I get it it is it’s just better than all the others. But they didn’t like it that I said the golden dollar could rise together. Because if you go to any gold conference or you listen to any gold presentation, one of the fundamental arguments for owning gold is the debasement of the dollar. And I’m like, yeah, that’s fine. Maybe the gold will rise versus the Dollar, but the dollar can rise versus everything else, so they can rise together versus everything else. There’s no reason you have to have all of your money in gold. If you had 50% of your money in gold, that would be a lot in my hair would be an awful lot. Yeah, that would be an awful lot. But then the other 50% you got to do something else with so you know, I would have it in US dollar assets. And I don’t know, I don’t really know why it’s so contentious, but it really is.

Jason Hartman 13:48

Yeah, it seems like an overly simplistic argument. I think. It will. It is obviously failed, because it does seem like since 1971, when Nixon closed the gold window. You know, everybody thought the dollar was kind of over right and you know, gold did have its times were definitely soared in there. But long term, the US government and the US Federal Reserve have really been able to kind of defy that gravity, I don’t want to say defy gravity in general, but defy that gravity that chirping of the gold bugs have put out there, right.

Brent Johnson 14:24

And again, I think the gold bugs are going to be right, this is all gonna end really really badly.

Jason Hartman 14:29

But it might be 100 years away.

Brent Johnson 14:31

And I think it’s gonna end badly for other fiat currencies before it ends badly for the US dollar. I think that there’s going to be a progression of the falling of the dominoes so to speak. And I think the US dollar is likely the last Domino to fall or gold is gonna be the last man standing as all the other fiat currencies fall.

Jason Hartman 14:47

Right. And I wouldn’t disagree with you about that. I just think it’s gonna take a long time and it’s always the compared to what question everybody loves to throw stones at the dollar. The US government It’s spending the Federal Reserve, but compared to what Japan, we’re approaching what 100% of GDP in our debt, but Japan’s got 230%. So this is the way the whole game works all around the world. It’s not unique to the US. But the US has better than anybody else. So what Brent, what is the future hold for us? And I mean, we have a lot of real estate investors that follow us. And I love income property, because you can get these great 30 year fixed rate, ultra cheap, arguably negative interest rate mortgages. And then if inflation comes, it’s going to debase that debt even further, you’re probably getting free money now. So and I call that inflation induced death destruction by the way, I created a name for it. But what does the future hold? Where are we going next? It’s a little hard to tell what a pandemic is a wrench into it, didn’t it? It really

Brent Johnson 15:50

did work. First of all, I don’t have a crystal ball. I could very well be wrong, but you can do magic tricks. But I can do magic tricks, a few of them with you, but I really kind of think that Next call it three to four years, two to two to four years, I think on a relative basis to the rest of the world, the US is going to do pretty well, that doesn’t mean things are good. It just means the better than everywhere else. And what I think is going to happen is that as this capital flows into the US, the dollar will get stronger and US dollar asset prices. Yeah, I think we’ll be able to fund our Treasury, I think US stocks will rise. I think real estate in certain places will do. Okay, commercial real estate, I’m kind of worried. Oh, I would be worried about. Yeah, you know, so I think it kind of depends on where you’re located and where you’re, if you have a very good job with very secure income, in you think that that income is secure for the, you know, for the future. And you can borrow a 30 year mortgage at two or 3%, whatever, whatever the percent is, and lock that in. I think that’s a pretty good deal, right? And you get your cash flow from the properties are coming in and paying your mortgage and I don’t have a problem with it at all. I don’t know that we’re going to have a run in real estate that We have for the last 20 years. I think that’s 30 years. I think that’s probably unlikely. I agree with either the cyclical

Jason Hartman 17:06

markets where people are speculating they’re really lost. And interestingly, the vast majority of those markets that we were talking just for a brief second off air before we started about, you’re from San Francisco, you’re in Tahoe right now, and how people are potentially, we’re seeing it already, but I don’t think it’s potential anymore. I think it’s reality now. People are leaving big cities, and the cities are the overpriced real estate markets. Those high density areas are what we call the cyclical markets. And there they’re leaving them in favor of these boring linear suburban markets that just kind of chug along and you buy housing there for yield, not for appreciation or capital gains.

Brent Johnson 17:48

Yeah, no, and I think you know, the nice thing about real estate is that you don’t see a price every day when you when you own stocks or bonds and send a brokerage account, as well. As you may try to divorce yourself from the long term view, you can still see the price every day and you see it go up and down. And whether you admit it or not, it affects you. You know, when you when you buy real estate, there’s really you don’t see the price of it every day. Yeah, maybe you know, it went up a little bit, maybe you know, it went down a little bit, but until you sell it, you really don’t know, or until the guy next door says that you really don’t know. And in the meantime, you’re just collecting your income. And so I think it’s a way to do some kind of disciplined investing, but keep your emotions out of it. And it’s a good way to generate the income. I like it. I just think you just need to be careful and make sure you know what you’re getting into. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 18:34

good stuff. You talk a lot about geopolitical issues. And you know, we touched on a few things, but did you want to bring up anything more there? I mean, there’s an awful lot going on in the world when you get past the Coronavirus snares.

Brent Johnson 18:48

So the thing that I think people really need to understand, and this kind of goes back to my dollar argument and going back to the two separate dollar markets, there’s the US domestic dollar market and there’s the euro dollar mark. So because money is loaned into existence, you need monetary velocity to be taking place or you need credit expansion to be taking place. It’s a the monetary system is a system that is designed to grow. If it starts to go in reverse the whole thing cracks and it crashes. And that is why whenever we get into a recession or negative trending markets, the Fed or the central bank has to come in and plug that hole. That’s what they’re there for. They’re there to go and issue new dollar collateral to re collateralize the system that’s QE or, or you know, what bailouts that we had in 2008. The problem is that that big market outside the United States exists as well. And the Fed does not have any jurisdiction over it and has no authority over it and really doesn’t have the ability to re collateralize that system when it crashes. And that’s what’s happening though that market has gotten so big, but now it’s contracting, new dollar loans aren’t being made. So the whole the system is start. into crack. But the only person or the only institution in the world that can issue new dollar collateral is the Fed. So what would what they have had to do is open swap lines, which is basically a way to give a foreign central bank dollars so that that central bank can then re collateralize the system with dollars. But the problem is extremely big, it’s in the trillions. I personally don’t think that the Fed has the political capital to bail out the rest of the world. While things are not necessarily great at home, in other words, I find it hard to believe that we’re gonna be able to justify giving Brazil 500 billion people in Bakersfield are unemployed, or giving giving Norway or France a swap line if we’re trying to save Boeing. Boeing is a kind of a significant industry or a significant company and industry with national with national security implications. United States Of course, its biggest competitors, their us and France. If we’re bailing out the ECB, which bails out France, which bails out Airbus, how can we justify that Win Win Boeing’s in trouble. So I, politically I don’t think it’s as easy for the Fed to bail out the rest of the world as it is in theory. But I do think these swap lines will be used as a weapon, or they will be used as a carrot and a stick, so to speak to further our geopolitical goals. In other words, Brazil you want to swap line find, then you have to toe the line, you have to vote with us on this UN resolution or trade with this certain country, whatever it is. And I think those quote unquote loyal for lack of a better word to the United States will get dollar liquidity and swap lines and those that don’t won’t. And I think that I think it’s gonna become a big geopolitical issue as we move forward over the next couple years.

Jason Hartman 21:39

What about military tensions? You know, North Korea just blew up their Liaison Office, there’s just crazy Iran. You know, maybe some that’s been distracted by the pandemic, but there’s definitely some tension in

Brent Johnson 21:54

the world think that’s gonna continue to bubble up. We’ve got these populist movements all over the world, you know, populist movements tend to play in the nationalist movements and the nationalistic movements can tend to cause frictions between different nations. I mean, we’ve seen this thing between China and India in the last couple days. You know, we’ve got the problems in in the Middle East, as we always do Syria still happening. I unfortunately think this will likely end in some kind of a military. It won’t be solved without some kind of a military conflict, unfortunately, I hope I hope that doesn’t happen.

Jason Hartman 22:26

I can see it happening. Yeah, I can to election. It’s amazing how distracted we’ve been from the fact that usually we’d have our hot presidential campaign going on right now. Yes. It’s been sort of not much at all. What are your thoughts?

Brent Johnson 22:42

So my thoughts are that Trump will win, but I’m not as convinced of it, as I was, say a year ago. I think it’s going to be an absolutely crazy five or six months leading up to it. What I am extremely certain about as whichever side wins, the other side won’t accept it. So if Trump gets reelected, the democrats will argue that wasn’t fair or dah, dah dah, dah and vice versa. If Biden wins, the the republicans will say it was rigged or you know, they were everything was geared against Trump or whatever vote

Jason Hartman 23:14

by mail fraud,

Brent Johnson 23:15

right, one of those things. And so I unfortunately don’t see this election bringing us together. And interestingly, and honestly, I don’t know if it makes much difference who wins? To be honest. I think if Trump wins, it would likely be a little bit better for the dollar. But I don’t think it really matters. I think the dice is largely cast. And now it’s just a matter of who’s playing the roles. I think this is going to play out the tension with China. I think that’s not going away. Whoever wins. I think if Trump has done anything well over the last couple years, I’d say he’s he has raised the awareness that maybe China’s not our best ally. Yeah, to a level that even if you know, the republicans don’t maintain power that I don’t think the democrats are going to turn around and go soft on China. I think for a number of reasons that that that cats kind of out of the bag And so mmt is coming, you know, multi trillion dollar stimulus plans are coming infrastructure bills are coming, the universal basic income, it’s probably coming, you know, with and COVID has been a big part of this, you know, if you’ve locked down entire economies, you’re gonna have some social ramifications of that. One of the ways to appease the social ramifications is give them some money. You know, I don’t pay to pretty pretty picture, unfortunately.

Jason Hartman 24:26

Yeah, the other thing and it’s not an economics thing as much, but just a lot more intervention in our lives a lot more tracking by tech companies, contact tracing, phone location, data mining, all sorts of stuff like that. I mean, if you want to turn a society or an entire planet into an Orwellian fantasy, boy, you know, nothing’s better than a pandemic to have a reason to do

Brent Johnson 24:51

all that right. It’s pretty amazing. You know, I was talking to a good friend of mine has done a lot of work on this as well and he is quite honestly much more up to speed on the panda. Making the science behind all of the, you know, the virology and stuff. But the one thing that we both agreed to was that regardless, there’s the theory that it’s the most deadly thing in the world. And then there’s a theory that it’s all a scam. Right? It’s the flu, that they’re using this to, you know, exert control. Regardless it to me, it doesn’t matter which one of those it is because regardless the speed with which, and the ease with which they were able to get everybody to just go home and stay there was what was pretty impressive. Yeah, you know, and so if you just step back and analyze the situation, it was pretty incredible. And I find that to be pretty scary, to be honest,

Jason Hartman 25:40

no question about it. People just sort of accepted that but I don’t think they’ll be able to get away with that again, to the same or, you know, maybe they didn’t get away with it. Maybe it really was needed. That’s an argument that will probably never be settled. But But who knows. But you know, it’s also amazing Brent, and I know we got to wrap up, but how delicate The economy really is how, how major corporations? I mean, I’m not talking about a restaurant owner, okay, that has 16 days that they can survive without income. Right, right. I’m talking about Boeing. I’m talking about other giant companies that needed bailouts immediately. I mean, that’s just so ridiculous to me, that they spent all those years in the gravy making tons of money. And we didn’t know they weren’t required, literally, by law, by some corporate governance principle as public companies to have a rainy day fund. They have no contingency plans whatsoever. It’s like, give us a bailout. You know, we have we bought all our stock back and all the execs got rich for years. But now we need to bail out it doesn’t that blow your mind? It’s ridiculous. It’s pretty incredible. Not only that, but a lot of the politics and this is not just the US, it’s going on in Europe, Europe, a lot of the policies and programs that were put in place for the banking system to have to do certain things and not invest reskilling those are now being loosened

Brent Johnson 27:02

in order to combat the crowd. Right?

Jason Hartman 27:08

It’s just It’s crazy. It’s crazy. It really is. All right, well wrap it up with any closing thoughts as to where we’re going or whatever you want. Yeah, you

Brent Johnson 27:16

know, I think between now and the election, you know, we’ve had this amazing rally in the equity market. I continue to believe that in the years ahead, the equity markets gonna go a lot higher, but I think we’re gonna have another soft spot between now and the election. I think the Fed will largely try to dampen that, but we’ll see if they’ll be able to do it. I think what I would say and you’ve done a good job of explaining as well as it’s a relative world. You might not like the US dollar, but you know, figure out a better currency than the dollar. Yeah. Is it good to hold gold? Yeah, it’s great to hold gold. I don’t think you should have 100% of your portfolio in gold. It’s never a bad idea to just have some cash on the sidelines have the rainy day fund, right. So if you’ve got cash, you don’t have to get in a big hurry to spend it. I think the predominant force right now is deflation. Inflation is going to come You know, but but I just don’t think we’re there yet. So having some cash sitting around isn’t a bad idea. Anyway, I guess just be flexible, be open minded and try to try to survive the next couple years.

Jason Hartman 28:10

Yeah. Right. You want to give out a website or Twitter handle?

Brent Johnson 28:13

Yeah, sure. So I have a website basically just has my contact information on it, but it’s Santiago Feel free to call me or email me. I’m pretty active on Twitter. It’s, it’s at Santiago au fund. You can find me there and do a number of podcasts and stuff and enjoy talking to you and always happy to come back and do it again.

Jason Hartman 28:32

Excellent. Brent Johnson. Thanks for joining us. Absolutely. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website Hartman Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember the guests opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal More tax advice or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

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