Digital Human & Digital Bank, Launch A Digital Bank with Chris Skinner

Jason Hartman starts the show giving a background on defaults. In the interview segment of the show, he hosts Chris Skinner, Chairman at the Financial Services Club and founder of Finanser. Chris has authored the books: Digital Bank: Strategies to Launch or Become a Digital Bank, Digital Human: The Fourth Revolution of Humanity Includes Everyone, and Doing Digital: Lessons from Leaders. They discuss the acceleration into the digital world and the future that technology plays. Skinner ties this with modern banking and then ends with a discussion on robotics, ethics, and philosophy.

Announcer 0:02
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multimillionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 0:54
Welcome to Episode 1507 1507. And hey, I’ve been writing about A lot of predictions, maybe, maybe maybe this is just another one. Yesterday, not less than yesterday, I talked about helicopter parenting. When I was giving advice to our listeners based on I believe it was a tools question about moving out of the San Francisco Bay Area. I think that was where that came up as I recall. And then today, today, there is an article in the Wall Street Journal that says, has COVID brought an end to helicopter parenting. The pressures of the pandemic have forced families to abandon the hyper vigilant approach popular since the 1990s. That could help kids become more independent. Yay. And of course the article has, but also comes with risk. Oh my god. Guess what, everybody? If we want to risk free life, we have to either be unborn, or dead. Everything between those two bookends is filled with risk filled with risk. Yes, living is a risky endeavor. No question about it. But, you know, this hyper vigilant helicopter parenting approach. By the way, this is a financial show we’ll get we’ll get to that in a moment. It’s been popular since the 1990s. Guess who was probably born in the 1990s. Millennials and also Gen Z, right. But millennials especially we don’t know enough about Gen Z yet too early to tell how they’re going to turn out. But millennials, most definitely the most catered to generation in all of human history, like not even close. Now this article in the Wall Street Journal backing up my thesis from yesterday. Right, right. See now I can maybe I’ll start a new podcast about parenting advice. Yeah. parenting advice by a completely unqualified non expert. Yours truly, it says about half of, I guess they did a survey of about 2000. Little over 2000 adults said they’re allowing their children to go to bed later 46% of them and wake up later 51% and are allowing more screen time. According to a survey conducted by Harris Poll on behalf of the University of Phoenix, a separate poll found that nearly 30% of parents said their child rearing styles are at least somewhat or much more relaxed than normal, according to a June survey of 900 parents by Pittsburgh based consumer research firm civic science, okay, so folks, Look, my comment, not that I know anything. I’m gonna just really encourage everybody To end the helicopter parenting, kids have got to develop some of their own strength. They’ve got to have some of their own hardships. And not only that, back in the day I know it seems like forever ago when you were carton your kids around a soccer practice and, you know, musical instrument practice and being a chauffeur, all that I mean, I’m absolutely shocked at how parents are literally chauffeurs. I’m sure you’re amazed, do parents when you were carting your kids around all these things and making sure your kid has not one second of downtime? Think about that. Was that anything like your childhood? No, of course it wasn’t. You had a lot of downtime, I’m sure you had downtime to think, to be creative, to explore your world. You know what I used to do all the time. I used to read I remember this because I was always read it. Maybe remember this book. I don’t even know if it’s still around. But it’s called the book of lists. And then almanacs. I used to love to read almanacs, and the book of lists, that’s plural lists. How do you say it’s hard to say, without our lists?

I used to read those all the time. And I just found it fascinating. You know, other stuff too. And I used to explore things. I think that was really good for me to have downtime, even to watch TV. And now we didn’t have the internet back then. Because, you know, I grew up in the Stone Age, but I just can’t imagine this is good for kids to be carting them around, catering to them, helicopter parenting all the time. I used to ride my bike all over Los Angeles, like miles and miles and miles away from my home, miles and miles. I used to go get my own meals and McDonald’s and restaurants and all this kind of stuff. Not saying McDonald’s, I’d never eat at McDonald’s anymore. It’s disgusting. But you get the idea. Like, look, folks, you know, kids got to do some stuff by themselves. help them grow up. That’s all I’ll shut up. Now, that will be the conclusion of my parenting advice on this show. You’re never gonna hear it again. Well, I might break that promise. I’m just gonna warn you in advance. But Wall Street Journal even thinks we might be at the end of helicopter parenting. So I just finished interview I was on with Rick Sanchez with RT television again today. And he asked me to come on and talk about how the banks, the banks are stockpiling money. What does this mean? What does this mean? Well, they have stockpiled the three piggy banks, JP Morgan, Citigroup, and Wells Fargo. Yes. The crooked scam artist at Wells Fargo. Hey, they’re all crooks. Okay, I’m not gonna I’m not gonna just pick on wells, but that’s the one to pick on in the last few years because they are disgusting. It’s like Wells Fargo with scandal every week. Who are we ripping off this week and what government fine are we gonna pay this week? Ask Wells Fargo anyway, they’ve stockpiled these three big banks about $28 billion. Now, compared to what is the question compared to what is the question? Okay. So, if you compare this and I am looking at a chart, and you know why I love charts, because they always answer that Jason Hartman question, which is compared to what, and compared to the second quarter of 2019. When this chart starts, you can see the three big banks, the biggest one of them, JP Morgan, they were stockpiling about $2 billion. That’s one year ago, $2 billion. Now in the last quarter, they stockpiled about $12 billion, or no, no, sorry, 10 and a half billion to be exact. $10.47 billion. The chart goes up to 12 billion and it looked like the graph was hitting the top but it wasn’t I stand corrected. So 10.4 7 billion JP Morgan Chase, and Wells Fargo stockpiled almost 10,000,000,009.7 5 billion, and Citi group a little bit less. Okay. So the point is, they are getting ready for a wave of defaults. And I’m not talking about mortgages here mortgages are just one part of the portfolio that these banks are, well, that they seem to be worried about. We don’t know what they’re thinking. But by their actions, it looks like they’re getting ready for a wave of auto loan defaults, credit card defaults. I don’t know how much they play in the student loan market, but there’s going to be a lot of defaults there. We’ve talked about that extensively, not dischargeable in bankruptcy, etc. Total scam, Harvard, disgusting shame on Harvard, as we talked about, I think last week, everybody’s got to go do their classes on a 13 inch laptop screen, but we’re not lowering our prices at all. We’re still gonna try Your $47,000 and change to attend Harvard online it should be like $5 what a complete scam. I’m so glad. The student loan debt enslavement complex. Well, the government student loan debt enslavement University disgusting complex is coming to an end, folks. Thank God for COVID-19 it has put a nail in the coffin. Everybody has realized that the emperor has no clothes. This is a scam. They have been scamming people for decades. And it’s finally finally going to start the end. The beginning of the end is here. Oh, by the way, I want to make sure I mentioned we have our first live stream tonight. Yes, we’re live streaming. And so that’ll be on my YouTube channel. And on our Facebook page or Facebook By the way, the name of our main Facebook pages Yes. So you go slash Jason Hartman calm and it comes up, and we’ll be live streaming there. If you’re friends with me if you’re one of my 5000 friends on Facebook, unfortunately, you have to cap out at 5000. It goes on to my personal page as well. So come on live stream, join the live stream, ask questions, get your questions answered. And we might surprise you and invite you right on on camera with us as well. And we’re gonna have Evan and Lisa are two of our team members on with me to do this live stream talking about some interesting stuff. And we plan to do those regularly. So if you can catch it tonight, it’s at eight o’clock eastern eight o’clock eastern. And then of course, you can watch the replay on the YouTube channel or the Facebook pages after that. But if you want to catch it live, ask questions. get your questions answered. Join us join us live this evening. You may not hear that soon enough. But it’s eight o’clock eastern five o’clock Pacific tonight on YouTube and Facebook. So anyway, as we are in the third inning, I believe, of this whole pandemic. And as we are operating one of the things Doug and I talked about this morning, by the way, you’ve heard back on the show many times. And Doug and I were commiserating over the idea that everybody is just assuming they’re making a giant assumption about this. They’re making an assumption that I mean, everybody’s making this assumption, what assumption are they making? They’re making the assumption that a vaccine is coming. Why are they making that assumption? I mean, maybe a vaccine will never be developed. Maybe there will never be a vaccine. And we will have to socially distance until the entire planet achieves herd immunity, which could take a long time. And we could have a lot of illnesses before then.

You don’t know we’re operating under a faulty assumption, in my opinion, and then Doug volunteered a story about a disease. He couldn’t think of the name of it, so I can’t share it. If you but some disease, there was a pretty big deal in South America, and they finally came out with a vaccine, but the vaccine was worse than the disease. See, sometimes the cure is worse than the diseases that is that old saying goes, you know, we don’t know. Let’s not assume that there’s ever going to be a vaccine. Hopefully there will. But again, we don’t know. We just don’t know. Anyway, hey, today we’re going to talk about digital banks, and how you can actually create your own bank. Do you like to have your own bank? No, this is not about infinite banking or something like that. This is about a real digital bank. So you can hear about that. It’s interesting, and I think you’ll like it. And so let’s dive into that. Be sure you get your tickets for our upcoming meet the Masters tickets selling like hotcakes, and you know, hotcakes, they go fast. So Jason slash masters for that early bird pricing available on the second tier of early bird available till Friday of this week. So get those tickets right now. Let’s go to our guest. And let’s talk about digital banking. And we are going to have a little Cameo appearance from George gammon in the show as well. So here we go. You’ve heard him on the show before. And it’s my pleasure to welcome George Gammon back just for a brief discussion of what he is going to talk about at her upcoming meet the masters of income property conference. This is the first time we’ve done it virtually it’s our 22nd anniversary event. And George, we are so excited to have you tell us what you are going to be sharing with our attendees.

George Gammon 13:35
Well, I just can’t wait first and foremost, Jason to get there and share hopefully what’s going to be some knowledge bombs and some serious value with your listeners with your viewers of the people that are going to attend this virtual conference. So the first thing I’d like to talk about is something that nobody understands and I think it’s just gonna blow people’s mind and that is in the most recent tax bill. came out in 2018, the tax bill that we thought lowered people’s taxes actually is going to increase people’s taxes substantially over the long run. So how is this going to happen? Because they switched the CPI measurement, and that’s the rate of inflation for the tax brackets. So if they increase the tax brackets too slowly, in other words, they use a rate of inflation that understates the CPI dramatically, then the tax brackets will move up slower. That means you are going to pay more and more of your income to the government over time and I won’t go into great detail, but trust me, this is something that everyone is going to want to find out about take notes so you can prepare in the future. So you’re not getting ripped off by the government. George,

Jason Hartman 14:53
that is fantastic. I saw you talk a little bit about this before with your famous whiteboard and your You’re great with the whiteboard for sure. That is a super important topic. And it is amazing, the kind of really sleight of hand that the government plays with the IRS with monetary policy with fiscal policy. It’s just incredible. And it’s so important that people understand this, isn’t it?

George Gammon 15:19
It absolutely is. Because as real estate investors, we can take advantage of certain tax opportunities. We’ve got depreciation, I mean, you go into this and a lot of your videos and I’m sure we’ll be talking about it more at meet the Masters, but we’re going into an environment in the United States where taxes are going to increase, I can almost promise you that are its corporate taxes, whether it’s income taxes, or maybe capital gains tax. So you need to be cognizant of what’s going on. Because you’ve got two options right now going into the future. You can either be prepared or you can be a victim. And Personally I’d rather be prepared. Yeah, absolutely. Well,

Jason Hartman 15:58
we can’t wait to have you and It’s your first time speaking at meet the masters. We originally folks had this scheduled as a live conference. It will be live now, but it’s, but it was going to be an in person physical conference, I guess I should say, in Southern California. And then we postpone that and turned it into a virtual event. So here we are, George, we can’t wait to have you. And thank you again for joining us. And I’m sure the audience is just going to be really looking forward to what you have to say. So thanks again.

George Gammon 16:28
All right, buddy. Well, I can’t wait to see you and everyone else. July 31, August 1 and August 2,

Jason Hartman 16:35
we’ll see you there. You got it. Looking forward to it. It’s my pleasure to welcome Chris Skinner. He is chairman at the financial services club and founder of financer he’s author of the best selling books digital bank strategies to launch or become a digital bank, digital human. The fourth revolution of humanity includes everyone The new book doing digital lessons from leaders. Chris, welcome. How are you? Yeah,

Chris Skinner 17:05
I’m good. Jason, thanks for having me on.

Jason Hartman 17:06
It’s good to have you and you’re coming to us from Poland

Chris Skinner 17:08
a great place. I’ve been to many times, what city are you in? Just outside Warsaw in the suburbs? Luckily, we moved to a place with a big garden in November. So it’s not been so bad for the last three months when we couldn’t get out of

Jason Hartman 17:21
the house. Right? Absolutely. Yeah, the world has really changed. And all of this change is accelerating what economist Joseph Schumpeter called creative destruction. And it is really accelerating change in the world in so many ways, a lot of it for the good. I mean, a lot of things that would have taken five or 10 years to happen in terms of convenience, technology, so forth are happening right away. And so there’s definitely some good good bits coming out of this, no question about it. But tell us what’s going on in the world of money and banking and how that affects all of us and in the economy in general.

Chris Skinner 18:00
Well, I’ve been saying for a long time that banks are challenged fundamentally by technology, because they have, in many instances, not upgraded their systems for over half a century. A stunning statistic from Reuters is that 43% of the big bank systems in America run on COBOL that was developed back in the 1970s. In most cases. So this is a issue because today, everything is being born on the internet. And everything is moving to be cloud computing based, and allowing people to plug and play software wherever they want to be able to work in whatever way they want. And that’s led to what’s called a FinTech revolution in the last decade, and in particular, in the last decade, there’s been a big pressure on banks to move to being more digital. And they’ve resisted that move because they have leadership that doesn’t understand technology that well, and then the lockdown arrived at one had to work from home and then all suddenly They’d left those decisions way too late because they didn’t have a digital backup, the physical operations only had physical backup. And suddenly they needed digital backup and they didn’t have it. So we’re going to see a massive change not just in banks, but in retail and all institutions to digitalization over the next couple of years that you might have might have taken a decade, it’s gonna happen in 12 months.

Jason Hartman 19:21
Yeah. So they’re old systems, that software that runs their businesses just won’t integrate with the internet, or how does that

Chris Skinner 19:30
play out? Well, a lot of people describe the systems of any large institution that’s been around for more than a 50 years as spaghetti structures. And what they’ve got is a lot of underlying core technology that some dating back to the 1980s 70s or even in some cases, the 1960s, you wouldn’t believe, and they’ve layered everything on top of it through the years. So it’s now become incredibly complex. And I liken it to the New York subway future Put in a brand new subway line, navigating through the existing subway system is incredibly difficult. And that’s what banks are trying to do, and large companies are trying to do when they add the internet to the old systems. Instead what they should be doing is re architecting completely fresh and new for the internet era and the digital era and eventually dumping all those old systems.

Jason Hartman 20:22
So tell us how it will change I mean, what can we expect in what will happen to the criminal organization known as Wells Fargo? Or or the criminal organization known as chase or Bank of America? You know, they’re they’ve all had their, their foibles. But lately, Wells Wow, it’s like one scandal after another. It’s incredible. Are these banks just going to kind of fade away? Will we all be using Venmo? Or what what’s going to happen? What does the future look like?

Chris Skinner 20:52
Well, I keep coming back to the fact that unfortunately, the big banks will not go away and they’ll just get bigger. You know, we thought they were disappear after 2008 and the global financial crisis, but they’ve actually gained market share, and they’re bigger than they ever were, when they’ve

Jason Hartman 21:06
consolidated more, there’s a lot less choice, right? Because the, the too big to fail, created a consolidation of power.

Chris Skinner 21:14
Exactly. And that will continue. And a lot of that has to do with the way in which the financial system is completely integrated into the governmental and economic system. So you can’t take that away. And because a lot of its to do with trust, and regulation, then it’s very difficult for it to to change. And in my lifetime, I’ve spent many times thinking that banks would eventually disappear, but they just get bigger because of that regulatory structure. There’s an interesting statistic again, in the US, which is the average bank in America deals with 128,000 regulations. The average technology company deals with 27,000. So it’s five times more regulations to deal with and if you’re dealing with pure technology play, but what is happening is the pure technology players are Wanting to make an impact, particularly around credit loans, payments and savings. So you’re absolutely right when you mentioned Venmo, or square or stripe, or Lending Club. Sophie? Yeah, all of these new companies that have just appeared in the last 12 years Born on the internet, after the financial crisis, are really starting to have an impact. But the impact is on the margins and profits. It’s not on the core business of banking.

Jason Hartman 22:23
But stripe isn’t a bank, for example, that’s just a merchant credit card processor, right? Or is it? Is it more than that?

Chris Skinner 22:29
Well, it’s a little bit more than that. I mean that my favorite FinTech company, and FinTech is this term that describes the integration with finance and technology. Yeah, this came around in the last just over a decade. And a lot of that’s resonating around cloud computing the internet and platforms and marketplaces which will turn you in but

Jason Hartman 22:46
but I don’t get it I mean, authorize dotnet a big old credit card processor. They have a website so to stripe stripes is better, but what’s the

Chris Skinner 22:56
real fun side Jason stripes unique aspect is that they offer beautiful sort of piece of code that allows checkout to be created really easy and simply for anybody trying to do merchant checkout as a company on the internet, and also some of the code. And they launched in 2011. And they’re now worth 36 billion. I know

Jason Hartman 23:19
they’re, they’re amazing. I follow their story. If our

Chris Skinner 23:22
context, one of the oldest and biggest banks in Germany is commerce bank, and stripe is over seven commerce banks in value. So amazing. Isn’t this a phenomena?

Jason Hartman 23:32
Yeah, but just to ferret that out a little more. And we don’t, you know, we don’t have to belabor this point. If you sign up with authorize net to do your merchant processing, that’s sort of an old company, or you sign up with stripe. I mean, they both have integrations, a lot of various merchant websites. Just have like a one click integration, they will both integrate right or what am I missing there that makes stripe such a big deal. I think

Chris Skinner 23:56
it’s the simplicity and beauty of the code that they do a lot too. offer and that they do have competition, but it’s not from companies like authorize dotnet. It’s more from companies like ad yen or Ali pay players with different industries and countries and different markets. And the reason why strikes being so successful is that they got a lot of traction with the new big players, the sort of Ubers or lifts or Airbnb ease of this world. And as a result, that traction gained a lot of momentum. And when people are developing code, they look at the plug and play code, which are called API’s that they can get from other players. And what they tell me is stripes that, you know, the engineers and developers that are developing code online, look at their code and go, Oh, it’s just art. It’s beautiful. So it’s almost like saying, Would you rather have you authorize dotnet which would be let’s see, you you too, or would you like to have Snow Patrol or Taylor Swift or whatever, but it’s kind of just some old guys on the bus. Nobody goes, Yeah,

Jason Hartman 25:01
something a geek would appreciate for sure. But okay, what about all the other services that banks offer? I mean, banks offer a variety of whole cafeteria services. And they largely suck at it. They’re pretty bad. The surface is pretty terrible at banks, everybody complains about them, kind of the way people used to complain about the phone company, the old traditional phone company, you know, are these services all discombobulated among a bunch of different companies now? Or, or maybe none of them exist outside of banks in terms of, you know, certain services. I mean, there’s a whole infrastructure of various services, right, a big variety.

Chris Skinner 25:39
Yeah, I mean, what’s happening and I often talk about this specifically is that there’s thousands of new companies doing one specific thing like the strikes in the edge into this world and the squares, just doing a retail payment or merchant payment online with a bit of code. So that stuff that is replacing just a very small piece of processing Within the financial network, and when you think about the financial investing in mortgages and real estate and payments, and high street deposit, taking full service accounts, etc, etc. There’s a myriad of services that banks are offering. And what’s actually going to happen over time is they’re going to start providing those services by picking these guys who are the new kids on the block and bring them to the customer. I call it the curation of technology, which banks haven’t got there yet, but some are moving in this direction. You know, more and more quickly are saying, we know we can’t develop everything ourselves. We’re not good at everything. We’re going to start bringing the best things out there to the customer. And we’ll do the integration, we’ll do the delivery, because why should you or I as a customer, don’t find out Can I trust stripe or square or add Yuan or Ali pay? Let the bank do it for me and then bring that to me and make it something that’s a really great service.

Jason Hartman 26:49
One of the bank names that comes to mind. It was probably from the sort of the bubble era is Ally Bank. You know, I remember I called them once. And it seemed as though the disconnect was they just do consumer banking, and I need business banking. So they weren’t for me, these old fashioned banks really seem to still have a lock on, like real business level services when it comes to banking. I mean, I assume that will change. But with all the know your customer rules and so forth to how do you really operate an online bank when you can’t meet your customer? That’s a, I guess, another part of it right?

Chris Skinner 27:29
Well, times are changing. And it’s all around timing, to be honest. And that’s, you know, for many years, there’s been many technologies, everyone’s forecast will change the way we do travel, shopping, buying houses by doing banking, you name it, and it hasn’t actually made huge differences yet. So Alli bank was kind of maybe before their time, and they’ve got time in the US which are doing pretty well. And in the UK, it’s been really interesting because there’s lots of new banks that have been launched. The two biggest names on one’s own styling, and styling, it’s only been going for three years already has almost 3% of the UK small business marketplace, Monza has got 3 million account holders, which is pretty substantial in a market of 30 million accounts. So you start to see changes happening. And it’s just timing. And one of the really interesting things about a lot the likes of chime and monzo is what they end up doing is becoming quite hip and cool as brands because people like to show their card and their service and so they get your lifestyle payments and and services and the old bank still maybe you have an account with them, you still might have an account with a wells or Chase, but they become boring or bank with boring or bills. So it’s your utility bills for electricity and gas or whatever is your mortgages and loans and foreign exchange but your everyday living is in the new hip and cool bank.

Jason Hartman 28:53
Interesting. Hey, let’s switch gears and talk about your other two books for a moment if we can well really not too But first of all, strategies to launch and become a digital bank. Can anyone do this? Is this? Is this a business opportunity for the common person? Or is it still only for banksters? banksters? It

Chris Skinner 29:12
is for anybody. It’s for absolutely anybody. One of my favorite stories was a bank that was launched in Britain. Unfortunately, it didn’t succeed for various reasons, mainly to do with funding. But it did get quite a lot of users and a lot of support amongst the millennial and Gen X community. And it was a bank called loot launched by 21 year old University dropout, lots to

Jason Hartman 29:37
love it. So, but but in the US, I mean, you’ve got to get FDIC insurance, and that’s gotta be super complicated, right? navigating that you’ve got to have, you know, a million FBI background checks and tons of regulations. So when you talk about launching a digital bank, is that outside of the US, or can you do it

Chris Skinner 29:59
more And then 26 and and others are coming to the US from Europe. And what they’ve realized is that the best way to start a bank is not to be a bank is to be a prepaid card with a cool brand. And then you build the online community, the social network on finance. And you do it in such a way that people like the way that you talk and the transparency that you offer. And you got gradually launched more and more services and loops going back to being launched by 21 year old University dropout. Again, it wasn’t a full bank, what it provided is the front end app. And it then brought in API’s and back end services from other providers who did a lot of the regulatory piece, for example. So y card is a big financial back office provider in Europe that does a lot of the pain of regulation and allows people to go and do the cool stuff at the front.

Jason Hartman 30:49
But how much capital Are you talking about that someone needs to start a bank? I mean, that sounds like a just a giant undertaking. I do see the way I see the path that you mentioned. And I think that it Really cool, by the way, you start with your audience. And you you start with maybe one application, and you build from there and just keep adding services. But when do you become a bank bank? You know, sort of what’s the definition of ads? I guess, when you take deposits,

Chris Skinner 31:18
right? That’s the bank. I mean, to build to be a full bank, you have to take deposits. That’s when you have to have the FDIC capital coverage of all of your operations. And you also have to have the due diligence of the Federal Reserve looking over your shoulder making sure that you’re doing the right things, you’ve got the right governance, the right people on the executive team, etc. That sounds

Jason Hartman 31:38
like a lot of money and compliance cost and lawyers, accountants, auditors, etc.

Chris Skinner 31:44
So first off is Jason, the minimum amount you need to be a full service bank from the get go is $30 million. And that’s just to get the license. That’s not to launch the operations. That’s just to get through the gate, right. So $30

Jason Hartman 31:55
million, is considered ultra wealthy 30 million net worth and above So I don’t think a lot of our listeners will qualify for that, I actually know that a couple of them will.

Chris Skinner 32:08
If you roll it back to my university dropout, you can launch the tertiary services with $50,000. You don’t need 30 million. And then you build and build and build. And as you get the momentum, you get the venture capital and investor support, you get the customer support, and you take it from there. So it’s step by step. Don’t try and eat an elephant all at once. didn’t do it one piece at a time.

Jason Hartman 32:31
Okay, so the future and you know, in your book, the digital human, you talk about robotics and other fascinating things. Let’s switch gears and talk about that a little bit.

Chris Skinner 32:42
Yeah, I mean, I’m a big fan of technology. I’ve always been in the technology industry in financial services, which is why I was talking about those two things. And I always focus on the future because that’s what we don’t know. But what was interesting is that until the pandemic, I’ve pretty much been traveling non stop for a decade, and I’ve seen nearly every nook and cranny of the world. And I generally ended up in museums and churches and temples, learning a lot about the history of humanity. And it kind of struck me during those travels that we initially became human because of shared beliefs, because we could communicate because we haven’t voiced a larynx. Then we had another revolution when we became civilized and created farming, so we could live in cities and towns. And then we had and at that point, we invented money. I mean, another revolution when we started to connect across borders and across continents, and went through the Industrial Revolution, which is when we invented banking. And now we’re going through another revolution because for the first time ever, in humanity’s history, every single human on Earth can connect directly in real time, anytime all the time. And you and I are experiencing that right now because we’re on different sides of the world. And I have Zune calls almost every day where I’m meeting people in every single country of the world. But the fact I still have that global connectivity, although I’m sitting at home for the last three months is quite incredible. that’s never been something available to humanity before and it’s changing the way we think and do things. And a lot of what’s happening right now is going to turbocharge that technology transformation. I just was writing something about 2030 arrived in 2020, which is because when it was being locked in at home, suddenly everyone said, Well, we have to do things differently. We have to shop from home, get everything delivered. And that behavioral change is going to be fundamental shift, that will actually impact your audience massively, massively because of the real estate drop, you know, in the UK just got a statistic that they just ease the lockdown and everyone’s gone to the shops. But compared to a year ago, the numbers that went to the shops is down 69%. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 34:41

Chris Skinner 34:42
Yeah. Amazon and Kobo going through the roof.

Jason Hartman 34:44
Yeah, right. And you know, the three primary value drivers for real estate have always been even since we were living in caves, location, location. And eight years ago, in 2012. I started saying That location is less meaningful than it’s ever been in human history. I started saying that on my show back then, eight years ago, and I was primarily saying that not necessarily because of all the technologies and you know, we had WebEx 20 years ago, okay, you know, this, we had Skype many years ago to these technologies are not really new. But the adoption has been, you know, somewhat mediocre, really, until the last three months, which is great. I mean, they’re, it’s wonderful that people are finally, really, really using these things. I mean, even my mother now will use all this stuff, right? She wouldn’t work. And the reason I said that in 2012, was because of the rise of autonomous vehicles, the self driving car was gonna change the location being so meaningful. And you know, like you said, You live in Poland, in an somewhat out of the way place it sounds like and you can still be fully connected. That’s great. That’s incredible.

Chris Skinner 36:00
You know, I was just gonna say there’s two big big behavioral shifts that happens. Immediately this lockdown came in. One is that for some reason everyone wants to connect on a video call, which we never did before, quite happy with a phone call. And actually, we’re connecting more and more often. So take your mother. And my mother might mean my mom is 92. And I’m talking two or three times a week on zoom when I used to speak to a one time a week on the telephone, yeah, but the other second big shift in behavior is that people have downloaded loads and loads of apps to have more things that they can do easily on on their mobile devices, specifically mobile banking, and a lot of people were wary about using digital bank services that’s again completely fundamental shifted. Now we’re not going to go back to doing the way that we were doing things before and one of the trends that I spotted going to your point from 2012 about location location is you I saw it in China first twitches and and India Which is a lot of entrepreneurs who had to move to cities to get work, have now gone back to the villages because they use the internet to work, right. And that is a massive shift in the way in which urbanization and society will operate.

Jason Hartman 37:12
Right. But it’s also a digital divide, because some people can’t do that. And man, that’s what that’s what we’re really seeing. And I think that’s going to shift the pay structure a lot. I think all of these people that have been doing these physical jobs have sort of been getting gypped they haven’t really shared and a lot of the prosperity in the economy. I mean, it’s kind of odd to me that, like, Why do Why is it always been food workers get paid so poorly? You know, if you’re a waitress, you can make good money with tips, right? Or at least in the States, you can, but you know, if you’re the cook in the back, unless you’re like a famous celebrity chef or something, you’re getting meager wages, and that job isn’t very enjoyable, in my opinion. It’s just sort of a it’s odd that it’s that way, like I don’t know why evolved that way. I mean, obviously a lot of people have that skill a lot of people can cook. So there’s there’s not a rarity to it. But a lot of people can do digital work too. The technologies become so easy thoughts on that

Chris Skinner 38:12
was interesting that I’m going back to your earlier questions. I didn’t really answers some about robotics and artificial intelligence. And the word robot actually comes from where I live right now, Poland. It was first used, in fact, the Czech Republic, which is a next door country, and to describe forced labor, doing drudgery. And that’s what robot means that it’s doing drudgery work, right. And so many people are doing that sort of work. Is that What amazed me and again, to your point is that when we had this lockdown, who were defined as essential workers, well, it wasn’t bankers and technology. Exactly.

Jason Hartman 38:50
Right. And hospitals and driving buses and working at the grocery store.

Chris Skinner 38:53
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so what’s gonna happen and this is a huge debate, and I don’t know the answer. But being honest because I’m I’m not an economist, and this isn’t an economic question is what happens when people no longer need to work? What? How will we structure society?

Jason Hartman 39:09
I’ve been wrestling with that forever. I mean, is it universal basic income. You know, when you look at the robotic revolution, it’s way more than just these menial, repetitive tasks, you know, flipping burgers, etc. It’s writing music, writing articles doing all sorts of things humans do now. Are we all just going to live in this world of abundance that’s created by the machines or is there going to be massive unemployment and civil unrest? I mean, which way is it going to go

Chris Skinner 39:36
when we got a little bit of an answer around it during the last three months in the some Coronavirus crisis, which is what have we been doing at home in my case, I’ve been getting much closer to my loved ones sharing a lot more time with them learning door trying to learn to speak Polish, which I’ve never had the time to do before, I think getting by on the piano, which I played 40 years ago, but haven’t touched since. And that sort of stuff and so it He says the online a lucky position because I can afford to do that. If you don’t have the universal basic income, if you don’t have some way that he would just get the basics of food and shelter, then you have an issue. And I think what we’ll see is that governments will be forced in the next 10 to 20 years as more and more jobs are automated, that they will have to give people food and shelter as a basic human right.

Jason Hartman 40:23
And I agree with you, even my most libertarian friends that don’t want the government to do any of this stuff are saying UBI is the future. It’s it’s going to happen. And it’s all we’re already seeing evidence of that now. You know, I agree. I had Andrew Yang, the presidential candidate on my show that was a big part of his platform was universal basic income. And that’s gonna happen, right? That’s it’s just got to do

Chris Skinner 40:49
maybe, because there’s a downside to it, which you’ve seen, maybe on the first peoples reservations in the USA or we’ve seen an experiment So being taking place in the Nordic communities in Finland and Norway, which is if people are given everything, so they don’t have a work ethic, they can fall, fall off the wagon and start to abuse themselves. So it’s kind of where’s the pride in not doing anything? You have to encourage people to do something. But the question is, what are we going to encourage people to do? Is it to be creative and emoting or share emotions and relationships? Or is it going to be to do drudgery? It definitely won’t be to do drudgery. So it will rise to be something new above what we are today, I hope.

Jason Hartman 41:34
Yeah, there’s definitely a moral hazard in that and we’re already seeing it with these enhanced unemployment benefits in the US, people won’t come back to work now that we’re having things reopen. A lot of people are just deciding, you know, I’ll just stay home and collect, collect my government money. So it’s quite interesting. Yeah, yeah. Wrap it up with a closing thought and give out your website.

Chris Skinner 41:55
sure that the website is the with an S because it’s short for financial services, and also Chris Skinner dot global which is where you’ll find everything about me.

Jason Hartman 42:05
All right, any closing thought you want to mention?

Chris Skinner 42:08
I think bottom line is you know some people said that I’m way too optimistic because digital human and this was the view that eventually we moved to being far more like Star Trek and Gene Roddenberry when he invented Star Trek categorically refused to allow money to be exchanged, because in the future, his view was that we deal with the betterment of humanity and not with the generation of wealth. That’s an interesting thought will ever happen. I don’t know. But it would be interesting if we all just talk about the humans.

Jason Hartman 42:36
Right. That would be interesting. We’ll see if that can happen. Chris Skinner, thank you so much for joining us. Cheers Dyson.

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