Elliott Wave, The Phillips Curve, Kim Jong-un

To start the show, Jason Hartman talks about the growth of telemedicine and how it will affect society. He also discusses Phillips Curve and its relation to the pandemic and economy. Afterward, Jason interviews Steve Hochberg about Elliott Wave. They illustrate levels of debt both for individuals and for the US government.

Announcer 0:12
This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.

Announcer 0:23
Welcome to the American monetary associations podcast where we explore how monetary policy impacts the real lives of real people and the action steps necessary to preserve wealth and enhance one’s lifestyle.

Jason Hartman 0:40
Thank you for joining me today from 189 countries worldwide. Hey, speaking of countries, North Korea is in the news. You’ve heard the rumors. Has Kim Jong Hoon passed away? We don’t know. I guess nobody in the non hermit world meaning North Korea, obviously the hermit regime, the hermit country? Probably doesn’t know the answer yet. But there are conflicting schools of thought on what will happen if he does pass. Number one that I want to mention. And it’s not the number one theory it’s just the one I want to mention is Jim Rogers, what he said i thought was very interesting. Now Jim has been on the show three times before. He’s the very famous author and hedge fund manager, you see him in the news all the time. And he predicted that North Korea would fall that it would open up that it would bring a bunch of inexpensive labor to the world now granted this labor, what kind of knowledge are they going to have? What kind of skills? I don’t know, I’m not quite as optimistic as Jim Rogers is about that. But nonetheless, it would become a very interesting region for for many years to come. The other theory that I guess that taking places that Kim’s sister would take over, and supposedly she is far more vicious than he is, or was, we don’t know, and would rule within with an iron hand even even worse than when then he did. So who knows what will happen. But let’s hope for the best. It would be so great to see North Korea open up and I’ll tell you something, even though nobody’s traveling now, and I’m not even thinking about traveling, and I’m enjoying the quarantine. I know, I’m weird. I know, it’s hard on a lot of people. But I honestly I kind of like it. It’s just nice to not have to go anywhere. And, you know, it’s I’ve said this before, maybe you’ve heard it, it’s the first time in my life, when I have like no sense of FOMO. You know, you know the acronym FOMO. fear of missing out previously, if the world were functioning as it normally does, you know, if I’m not going somewhere, if I’m not on a trip, if I’m not going to a conference, I’ll open up social media, and I’ll see all my friends are at this great conference, and I’m missing out, or my friends are on this great trip around the Mediterranean, and I’m missing out. And so you have that FOMO. And the FOMO concept really ties in very much with the keeping up with the Joneses idea. And I’m not saying that any of this is good or even psychologically healthy at all? I don’t think it is. But it just is. Look, that’s the way we’re all wired. I know you’re wired that way too. You may, you may claim to be immune from it, but you’re not. Because guess what I know about you. I know that you’re human, I know that you have the same basic wiring I do and everybody else does. I know we have the same nervous system, the same brain parts, the same three historic mentalities, the same fight or flight response. And I know you have the same set of emotions. So that’s what I know about you. So anyway, it’s interesting, but yeah, no concept of FOMO at all, which by the way, as I predict how the recovery will go from this catastrophe of the first self imposed, depression, or recession or depression, we’ll see we’ll see. But as I predict it will be the modified square root symbol. I may have mentioned that to you before the modified square root symbol, and more to come in my upcoming pandemic investing course that’s turned into an entire course now, and we’re gonna do it virtually. And you know, what many of you are asking me to do my creating wealth, one day conference virtually or the GHQ conference virtually. And you know what, I’m into it. We’re gonna do all of this stuff. You know, I have learned in this past several weeks and probably you have to how to do things better, virtually, you know, creative destruction. Joseph Schumpeter, the economist, Joseph Schumpeter. We’re all learning to do this and yesterday, I mentioned that my dogs veterinarian said download the telemedicine app. Well, guess what? Today, right before I started recording, I got an email from my doctor and my doctor, I had asked previous Honestly, if I could have a telemedicine appointment, and guess what they said, No, we don’t do that here. And by the way, my doctor is with a big, you know, medical company, right with lots of doctors, lots of resources, lots of technology. Anyway, I just got an email, the doctor is ready to see you dash, and you don’t even have to leave your home. And it’s a picture of a person holding an iPad, having a virtual meeting with their doctor. Seriously, folks, telemedicine is long overdue. We’re finally there. For the veterinarian, and the human doctors. The good stuff that is coming out of this is a measurable. And if I didn’t really make a point yesterday, the lagging, increases in efficiency that will be generated from this and making the economy more friction less, making showings of properties more frictionless. And Oh, and by the way, thank you, for all of you who joined our webinar on Friday and Saturday, it was great success, we got great reviews on it. So thank you for joining us for that. And you all asked a bunch of great questions. And hopefully we’ve answered all of those. If we haven’t yet, please make sure you get with your investment counselor, either through Jason hartman.com. Or if you already have one, you can just email them direct, or calling one 800 Hartman, and we’ll be happy to help you with any follow up any questions, comments, or concerns about the webinars that we had? And some of you asked about the electronic lock and showing system that the property manager presented on that webinar. And hopefully, we’ve provided all that information to those of you who asked by now, but again, if not reach out to us. But look, folks, these efficiencies will are making business more efficient. You know, I doubt my doctor, and I know my veterinarian didn’t reduce their price for their exam fee. But I do know that they’re going to increase their efficiency. So when they increase their efficiency, what happens? their businesses more successful, it’s more stable, they’ve got more money to spend into the economy, and the economy grows. This isn’t all bad news that’s happening. We’ve heard all the bad news. But there’s a lot of good news coming out of this, okay. And these increases in efficiency will be with us forever into the future, because people are learning how to do things virtually. It’s a great thing. Okay, we’re gonna get to part two of our Elliott Wave discussion from yesterday. And by the way, part two is better than part one. I didn’t tell you part one wasn’t as good yesterday, did I?

Nope. Part two is better. You’ll like what we talked about today as we just wrap up this interview. And we’ll get to that in a moment. But first, I want to talk to you about something I’ve alluded to before, and maybe didn’t go into it deep enough, because it’s particularly applicable. Now. It’s an economics concept that I have mentioned before, it’s called the Phillips Curve. And the Phillips Curve, I was talking about it on Facebook with one of my economist buddies today. And this is a really important concept. And again, it has its has its proponents, it has its detractors. Some say it was disproven by what happened in the 1970s. And let’s just go into this a little bit. Okay. So the Phillips curve is this economic concept. And it was developed by someone named a W. Phillips, okay, an economist. And basically, the idea is that unemployment rates, the rate of unemployment, and the rate of inflation, have this inverse relationship. Okay? In other words, when you know, when the economy is doing well, it’s booming, you’re naturally going to have inflation, because, hey, look what happens. People have a wealth effect, they have more money to spend, they feel very optimistic consumer confidence is high, and they’re willing to spend without much care. And this not only applies to the individual, but applies to businesses too. Right. So companies will spend more money, they’ll hire more people, they’ll do more advertising programs, they’ll buy more machinery and equipment. You know, maybe if they’ve got maybe it’s a small business that has a couple of trucks to do deliveries or service or whatever they do. And maybe they’ll buy some more trucks and hire some more drivers, right? People are feeling good. So as they spend their money into the system, naturally, you have more dollars chasing a somewhat limited, although it’s not completely inelastic supply of goods and services so you naturally have the inflationary pressures that’s natural and most everybody listening can understand how that happens. Right? And then When you have unemployment, and things are bad like they are now, when you have unemployment, you generally have deflationary pressures, because people don’t have all that money to spend into the system. And so you have supplies, and you have demand destruction. Remember, we’ve talked a lot recently about supply demand shock, which by the way, we’re definitely experiencing, and we’re going to experience a lot more of it to come my prediction. And that’s because supply chains have been damaged. First, the demand is destroyed. And we’ve already seen a lot of that. I mean, how much demand is there for air travel cruises, restaurants, and haircuts? And well, actually, there’s quite a bit of demand for haircuts. But there’s no supply. A friend of mine today, got a haircut. And I’m like, I asked, I said, Hey, do you have some underground connection here? Is there a gray market, you know, barber that’s open, because I want to go, I need a haircut too. Hey, this is the first time in my life, or at least in the last 15 years. And I’m gonna say this right here, for the first time, I have too much hair.

I actually have too much hair. I can’t imagine I’m gonna think that very often. Yeah, hair needs to cut. And so we have a supply destruction there. So if I could get a haircut right now, I would pay triple the normal price that I paid just to get it right. So that’s an example right there of supply demand shock. And I think I shared with you the other day, the example of checking the airfare prices, and it’s another perfect example. So more of that to come. But the detractors of the Phillips Curve, say that the concept was debunked in the 70s. Because in the 70s, we have this unique situation, which I say, we’re coming into again, and we’re gonna have it again. So you can’t accuse me of being an optimist. Okay, I’m definitely not being optimistic about where we’re going. Because we definitely have some real, real problems, make sure you heard heard me say that. I just think that you can position yourself around it, and actually do quite well, through this whole crisis. You know, you got to have some things in your own house in order to take advantage of it got to have a job or an income. It’s not for everybody, but I’m saying most of you listening, because I know who our listeners are, can definitely take advantage of the situation. And it’s the very least you can tread water while others are sinking. But at the very best, you can do a lot better than that. Okay. In the 70s. What did we have, you know what I’m gonna say stagflation. We had a comeback of the misery index. And under Jimmy Carter, we have this terrible, very undesirable situation where we had high inflation and high unemployment at the same time. So the inverse relationship that we would normally expect to see if the Phillips Curve was always right. It was, you know, the Phillips Curve was on the bench, it took a break, it didn’t work in the stagflation airy environment. And I think coming up in the future, it’s also going to be its detractors will say, see, see the Phillips Curve doesn’t work. Right. But I think generally the concept does work. I think there are those just those rare bouts of stagnation or I shouldn’t I don’t mean stagnation. I mean, stagflation. stagflation, there is a difference. By the way, stagnation is just when everything stops, right? Well, I guess you could argue that’s what we’ve had recently stagnation. But stagflation is where you have the inflation and the high unemployment and the low GDP all at the same time, right. And so you can’t always use the same tools to fix these problems. For example, we’ve seen the monetary and fiscal policy remember monetary policy comes from the central bank’s and fiscal policy comes from the government fiscal policy is how much can you tax? How much can you spend? monetary policy is how much money can you print? How much money can you create out of thin air fiat money? You know, you’ve all heard the people that say that, which by the way, fiat money, it just ain’t true. Folks. Remember, I talked to you the other day about the 18 aircraft carriers that the US maintains, okay. And you know, who, you know, the dollar is not backed by gold, or if it’s not backed by gold, it can’t be real. It’s gonna collapse. Oh, seriously, if I hear that one more time. You know, it’s just that that talk about something that’s been debunked, that theory has been debunked a million times. Okay. As the Peter shifts of the world has been have been saying that the dollar is going to collapse and the US is going to become this Third rate country, you know, keep on predicting for decades and decades that that’s going to happen. But at the end of the day, who’s got the aircraft carriers? That’s what’s going to keep it from collapsing. Okay? So, you know, yes, someday, someday you’ll be right. But I’m, I have a feeling you won’t be alive for that day. Okay. Anyway, so we’re where we were where we senior moment here, folks. Okay, so monetary policy? Well, it’s not just about how much money you can create out of thin air this, you know, fiat money, right? It is backed by aircraft carriers and missiles, but maybe not gold. So it’s not just how much you can create in terms of money, but it’s also the general tightening and loosening that goes on, which is part of the QE or quantitative easing concept, for sure. But it’s not all of it, right? Because the banks can say, Okay, we’ll tighten the reserve ratio, or will loosen the reserve ratio. And by just doing that, you’re not really creating money, per se, but you are allowing more money to flood into the system. And so it’s a really complicated thing. I mean, listen, I doubt even I really doubt even that Alan Greenspan or Ben Bernanke, he or Jerome Powell or Janet Yellen, you know, our current and past Federal Reserve chairs, really even fully understand how the system works. I certainly don’t pretend to, but we understand some little pieces of it. It is a super complex system. There are so many levers and buttons and toggles, and it’s just truly boggles the mind. So anyway, the central banks and the governments, you know, they have this target rate of inflation. And the US has that target rate of about 2%. And in that environment, they hope to keep inflation at about 2% and keep unemployment low and manage the Phillips Curve. Now, when I was talking with my buddy on Facebook today, by the way, I asked him to be on the show. I’m going to reach out to him again, see if we can get him on. He talked about Ray Dalio, his plan. And of course, you’ve heard the name Ray Dalio. We’ve talked about him on the show before. He’s the big big time billionaire hedge fund guy. And Ray’s idea was that basically, let me just summarize this for you quickly, and we’ll get to part two of Elliot wave theory. So my friend also named Jason says Ray Dalio has some really interesting thoughts and ideas here. Long story short, he proposes that instead of using common fiscal policy of fluctuating interest rates and quantitative easing, that we instead fix interest rates at around 0% and fluctuate taxation instead, basically, during times of high productivity, where demand and inflation will, by definition be increasing, we increase taxes and pull money out of the economy, and pay off accrued debts during times of lower productivity. In other words, GDP is down. Unemployment is high economy’s in a slump. We decrease taxes to provide stimulus because when you decrease taxes, you put more money into the system. That’s the Laffer curve, the reagan trickle down theory of economics, which by the way, does generally work. Okay, if you’re not a Reagan fan, well, sorry, you’re just wrong. Because that actually does work. Now, it doesn’t work perfectly. Okay. The distribution is always unequal, I get it, but it generally works. Okay. if done properly, we should be able to keep employment full and be able to regulate the money supply and be able to modulate the economic curve through changes in taxation and money supply, instead of changes of interest rate in interest rates and money supply. And I think what he meant to say there really is money creation, because the supply of money would come from lower taxes. That’s how you would increase the money supply to stimulate the economy, you’d lower taxes. And then when the economy was good, you’d raise taxes to tighten the supply of money. Okay. It’s an interesting concept that Dalio talks about. It’s kind of a modification of, Well, it certainly is another way to manage the Phillips Curve. And it’s also a way to sort of modify the system we have now. And it would make it a lot more transparent because you would see the tax rates rather than the monkey business that goes beyond behind it goes on behind the scenes nowadays, but anyway, quite interesting way to manage the Phillips Curve, but it all comes back to the Phillips Curve concept. So that’s what I wanted to share with you today. Okay, without further ado, let’s get to part two of the Elliot wave theory.

In part three of the book you’ve got talking about protecting yourself. And you’ve got many asset classes listed bonds, real estate, collectibles, cash, you know, just staying in cash. You know, then you talk about how to find a safe bank. I mean, are we looking at a banking problem this time around? We certainly had one last time around. Oh, yeah. And when and we never saw that? Well, yeah, we Yeah, we definitely. It’s like we said before we went on the air today, you know, come on the way, the way governments around the world and central banks around the world solve problems today is when there’s a fire, they throw gasoline on it, which means when there’s too much debt, they just add some more debt.

Steve Hochberg 20:39
Right. And that’s the problem, because we haven’t really, we haven’t really solved we haven’t, our debt structure is not in line with our income structure right now. And there’s too much debt. I think the GDP last I saw was about 20 to $22 trillion. We have about 70, I think 71 or $72 trillion of total credit market debt. So we’re 3.2 times we’re so in debt, well, you’re you’re you’re doing total you’re not doing national debt, then we’re not doing total credit market debt. Because Because it’s it’s a dead it’s a it’s a owed by someone. So I don’t think we’ve really corrected what we lie. No, we haven’t corrected what we’ve accumulated, even through the credit crisis of 2007 2009. And that, I think that needs to be brought back in line. If you look at historical debt levels, for example, the 1920s, or even, even the 1970s, were in that really bad bear market debt levels were much more in line with income levels, and we got way out of whack. So

Jason Hartman 21:40
income means tax revenues, or total income of government households corporate versus the total data of government households.

Steve Hochberg 21:50
Right, right. Right, total, total income levels of everything. What’s interesting is that the Fed just had what the media is calling QE infinity. I mean, they basically backed. Yeah, they basically threw money at it, as you said. But what’s what’s interesting is that, that everything the Fed has said they’re going to do has been backed by the Treasury, the Treasury has pledged to cover any losses that the Fed is going to incur through their lending programs. At some point that can’t go on forever, because of the Treasury’s receipts or tax receipts are falling. So at some point, the Treasury is going to say, I’m sorry, fed, but we can’t back everything that you’re promising right now. Because we just don’t have the receipts coming in. And our debt levels are out of out of whack. And at some point, people are just going to not buy American. And I mean, they’re gonna just mean the dollar will crash and, and interest rates will spike and because they just have too much debt relative to the income we’ve got coming in. Oh, so as I said,

Jason Hartman 22:48
we’re in the biggest money printing extravaganza in world history. And there’s more to come, by the way this, isn’t it. But the question is, how do you know that? You know, how, if we look at the debt to GDP ratio, right now, it’s high. Okay. It’s like, I don’t know, 70%? Or something like that? I think, don’t quote me on that one. I’m sort of pulling it out of memory. But it’s high. Right? everybody would agree with that. And since we’re in uncharted territory, how do we know what that limit is? You know, if you look at the typical household and just go with me on this thought experiment for a second, maybe it isn’t analogous. But if a typical person, you know, household between, you know, a couple say living in a house earns $100,000 a year, and they buy a $400,000 house, and that $400,000 house has a $300,000 mortgage, and they got another 100 grand in student debt. And they’ve got another 50 grand in car loans, just for example. So what do they have there? They have $450,000 in debt, they make $100,000 a year? Do they have too much debt? I don’t know. You know, they financed the house over three decades, the interest rates are super low. The student loans are complete ripoff, of course, but you know, the rates on those are even low. You know, I don’t know, does it? How do we know? I have too much to know.

Steve Hochberg 24:16
I’m going to answer this from an Elliott Wave perspective. We know and I can’t, we can’t speak to individual situations, because those are individuals, but we can can speak to the aggregate. And the way you know you have too much is is through the wave patterns through the structure of the market. When the market completes and Elliot wave a rally of what we call a five way rally pattern. That means that psychology has reached its its extreme optimism has reached its elevated high point, its peak point, and it’s ready to reverse. And all of these debt levels can continue to expand willy nilly as long as optimism is high. And if optimism is high, people will borrow. They’ll start businesses, people listen up to popular music. They hemlines on their skirts rise. I mean, a lot of things happen throughout society. They do

Jason Hartman 25:08
have, by the way, listeners, they do have a skirt metric. Okay? When the skirts gets shorter, we’re optimistic about the economy, they get longer, we’re pessimistic. And for example, look at the roaring 20s, the short dress and flapper dresses, right. So

Steve Hochberg 25:25
yeah, I mean, and there’s a lot. And there’s another thing, for example, at peak levels of optimism, you tend to get what we call the skyscraper indicator. Yes. All buildings are built. And so how do we know when we’ve reached that limit and dead is when optimism has reached its peak and starts to reverse. And we go toward that next extreme and pessimism, we do that correction, as we call it, an Elliott Wave terminology and ABC decline. That’s when we hit the limit and debt levels will start contracting after that. So if

Jason Hartman 25:58
you’re an esoteric and got it, got it, that was good, but you’re talking about people in society, and that’s fine, right? I’m talking about government, everybody complains, the debt to GDP ratio is too high, it’s out of whack that we’re gonna have, the dollar is gonna crash, it’s gonna lose its value. It’s not gonna be the reserve currency of the world anymore, which I think is ridiculous. I think those people they’ve been wrong, wrong wrong for decades. But maybe Peter Schiff will be right someday. I don’t know. I mean, how do we know how much debt to GDP a country can handle? I mean, even Japan is, no one would argue that it’s doing well, but they’ve got other problems. They have a demographic problem. They have like zero immigration, right. They have no young people coming in. And that economy’s been stagnant for a long time. And they have really high debt debt to GDP, I think it’s like 229%. It’s like, triple what ours is. And we have the reserve currency and they don’t.

Steve Hochberg 27:02
Right, but my but the way I’m looking at it, and my answer is that is broad, its macro and get can be sustained and expand as long as optimism is high. And when that changes, and we think we’re in the process of that changing, then you have a problem, then then debt, even though you’re financing your debt, it is essentially 0% interest rates, it’s still debt, you still owed to someone and, and the debt accumulates to a level where it’s simply is unsustainable to be serviced through the revenue stream that you got throughout the economy. I think we’re there right now. And we’re in a process of retrenchment, which is a very healthy process, but it’s extremely painful for people who aren’t prepared for it. And that’s kind of what Bob was trying to accomplish or is trying to accomplish to conquer the crash 2020 is to get people prepared, that you don’t have to get caught up in it, the markets may go down. Things might retrench price it asset prices might go down. But if you’re prepared for it, and you’re safe, you’re gonna have tremendous buying opportunities, when we finally do hit that ultimate bottom.

Jason Hartman 28:07
Okay, so last question for you. I know we got to wrap it up. And sorry, kept you a little long here. But you’re you’re very interesting. So of any asset class out there. And I know you talk about real estate as a monolith. And you kind of have to because that’s why everybody talks about it. But we know it’s not so we understand that. Okay, there’s different types of real estate in different markets, obviously. But is is any asset class on this list? Good. Like, would you would you buy bonds, collectibles, stocks, keep your money in cash? You know, what’s, what’s the recommendation?

Steve Hochberg 28:42
I think there’s a huge bull market starting right now. And it’s the bull market in cash. No one wants cash, cash pays us zero essentially, it’s just sitting there. But one thing we did in this month’s issue of our newsletter, which I write with my partner, Peter Kendall, it’s called the Elliott Wave financial forecast, as we showed a chart of the Dow Industrials inverted, because when you invert the Dow, what you’re really talking about is cash relative to equities. And we’re starting, in our opinion, a huge bull market in cash. And so what our overarching recommendations to investors right now is be safe. There’s really no downside and safety right now be safe, short term cash or cash equivalents, such as floating rate notes from the Treasury, you’re not gonna get a huge return on your money, but you’re gonna get a return on your money and I think in certain environments, and they’re rare throughout history, I think we’re in one of those rare environments right now, where being in cash is going to allow you to pick up assets for for literally 10 cents on the dollar as we go through this retrenchment and we finally get to the end of the bear market and then you can step in and and really increase your wealth exponentially after that.

Jason Hartman 29:55
Yeah, so that cash is okay as long as we don’t have inflation, and all the inflation bugs and gold bugs out there and gold is doing fairly well. Yeah, and I’m not a gold bug, just so you know, but, you know, it’s kind of coming back, you know, they would say, with all this money printing, we’re gonna have massive inflation and cash is gonna get destroyed. But you think the opposite.

Steve Hochberg 30:19
I think we think the exact opposite. And it’s all explained in Kaka crash 2020 The problem is not dollar bills, we can print all the dollar bills we want the problem is credit. And credit can be extinguished faster than you can print dollar bills. And so when you what, what deflation really is, is a contraction in the volume of money and credit, everyone focused. I

Jason Hartman 30:42
know, I told you that. I was saying the same thing in 2008. You know, everybody was on TV saying, well, the money supply? And what about the credit supply? You know, money, it’s, it’s cash plus available credit. That’s what determines how much money there really is? You know, in terms of the money supply? I totally agree with you on that. But why? Why is it that you can extinguish credit faster than you can print dollar bills seems like we can print dollar bills pretty fast.

Steve Hochberg 31:12
All you have to do is not pay your loan. And you know, there’s a default there’s a de facto default. So that’s the problem right there. We have plenty of dollar bills circulating in society. It’s just the credit we need expanding in order to keep things going. And I think that’s the problem that we’re facing right now. So I think being in cash right now, I don’t think inflation, inflation might be the problem hyperinflation might be the problem. I think after you, you go through the deflationary phase. And for example, gold is a good example. You say gold has been rallying, but actually gold topped in 1921 back in 2011. I mean, we’ve been in a bear market.

Jason Hartman 31:51
I don’t like gold.

Steve Hochberg 31:53
Yeah. So, yeah. So I think that once we get through the deflation, then we’ll have to kind of see where we go from there. It could be stagflation, it could be hyperinflation, we can’t see that far around the corner. But we do see right ahead of us. And we think that we’re going into a deflationary period here,

Jason Hartman 32:12
and I disagree with you, I think we’re going into a stagflation airy period. And either way, they’re both unpleasant. So we can agree on that. But yeah, unpleasant for most people, at least. But there are some that nicely do well in any environment. give out your website. Sure. It’s

Steve Hochberg 32:29
www dot Elliott wave.com. That’s two L’s and two T’s and Elliot. And it’s one word, Elliott wave.com got a ton of free stuff on the website explains what Elliot waves are some free commentary, and you can kind of click around and see if it makes sense for you. Hey, Steve,

Jason Hartman 32:47
one last question. I forgot to ask you. Where are you located?

Steve Hochberg 32:50
We’re in Gainesville, Georgia, which is about an hour northeast of Atlanta.

Jason Hartman 32:54
Yep, I know. Good. Good stuff. Well, hey, thanks for joining us today and be safe out there and happy investing.

Steve Hochberg 33:00
Same to you and all your listeners be safe.

Jason Hartman 33:05
Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out this shows specific website and our general website Hartman. Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are the rain. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

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