Case-Shiller Index, Housing Bubbles & Permabulls

To start the show, Jason Hartman shares an update from the 2020 election. Adam joins him to discuss the possibility of voter and election fraud. Then, the two talk about the housing bubble and the misinterpretation of the complex US housing markets.

Announcer 0:01
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Announcer 0:12
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Jason Hartman 0:28
Welcome to all of you people out there in election land sitting on pins and needles as this election is a it is a close contest, isn’t it? Adam, our fellow democrat and team member, we got point counterpoint here today, maybe because we’ve got both sides of the political aisle represented. Adam, welcome. How you doing?

Adam 0:53
I’m doing pretty well. I didn’t pay a ton of attention last night. So I’m doing well.

Jason Hartman 0:58
Well, that was a good discipline not to pay too much attention to the election last night. Because, heck, you know, I had a feeling we wouldn’t know anything. And you know what, I have a feeling we’re not going to know anything for a few days, or maybe even a couple of weeks if the Supreme Court gets involved. But we’ll see what happens as the democrats try to steal the election. I thought you’d appreciate that. Yeah.

Adam 1:22
You know, I was talking with the race. Monday, I think, and we were discussing the election, and he was saying nurses and other investment Council for those who don’t know, and he was saying he’s not sure if he’ll see another republican win the popular vote for the rest of his life. And it’s quite possible. Well, you know, I

Jason Hartman 1:38
think if it does turn out that Biden wins, and they give amnesty to, you know, what 12 to 15 million current illegals, or is Hillary Clinton says workers without papers. You gotta love that one, then that will lock in a democratic vote pretty much for many, many years to come. I am hoping that does not happen. Because I think that would be extremely unfair. But hey, we have what we have. That’s the world we live in. So let’s dive into it. today. Of course, income property is the ideal asset class, because it provides income, depreciation, and of course, we mean depreciation in a good way as a tax benefit. It’s a wonderful thing. The best tax benefit of all is depreciation, and equity growth. That’s obviously good and appreciation that’s obviously good. And leverage, meaning you can do more with less. So let’s go ahead and jump into our talk today is we’re going to talk about bubbles and so forth. But of course, visit our website for privacy policy, disclaimers, and all that good stuff. Reach out to us, Jason hartman.com. Or if you’re in the United States, you can always call us on a good old fashioned telephone at one 800 Hartman, but that’s a US only number. All right, so Adam has prepared some good stuff for us. But before we get into investing content, and talk about income property, the most historically proven asset class in the world. At the time of this recording, Biden is in the lead. Adam, what say you I am really surprised to see Arizona go to Biden that, that just kind of surprised me. Actually, I didn’t think that would happen.

Adam 3:22
I have to give it up my tinfoil hat and just made a comment on our, our, our presentation. Did Kanye win my tinfoil hat? Thank you for making me laugh this morning. I appreciate it.

Jason Hartman 3:36
Kanye did not win. Now. Kanye, I don’t think is gonna win, at least not this time around.

Adam 3:43
Give him four years. Who knows when? Yeah, I kind of I knew it wasn’t going to be the landslide. But, you know, all the pollsters were predicting I actually posted I think the poll the polling business might go out of business after this election, because they’ve been shown to be they’ve been shown to be pretty useless. The last two elections.

Jason Hartman 4:01
Yeah. And pretty biased. I think, you know, polls, actually, they create a self fulfilling prophecy issue and just want to remind everybody about self fulfilling prophecy. One of my favorite quotes comes from the old sleepy California senator si Hayakawa be late I should say, but he was kind of a sleepy guy. But he wrote a book on self fulfilling prophecy, which is pretty interesting. And he said something very telling. He said, the self fulfilling prophecy is something that is neither true nor false, but it is capable of becoming true if it is believed. And, you know, that speaks to the idea of political polls, because they do influence elections. You know, if the pollsters say this or that, it’ll keep people at home, they’ll stay home, they won’t bother to vote, you know, or it will make people just give up and say, you know, Biden won or whatever right? So the polls really do bias people. And I think they should be, you know, not allowed maybe for a week before an election or something like that. But the problem we had this time is you had all this mail in ballots, and I’m sure there’s just massive voter fraud, saying that in a partisan way, I’m just saying that’s just a fact. What do you think about that? Adam, do you think I’m being paranoid when I say Yes, I

Adam 5:23
do. I think they, I think they’ve shown that there’s the number of instances of mailing of ballot fraud in general, is very low. Very, very low.

Jason Hartman 5:35
Okay. So let’s just let’s just slice that up for a moment. You know, would you agree, I’m going to ask you a couple of questions on this as our fellow democrat representing represent. Okay. So would you agree that most postal workers would be democrats?

Adam 5:52
I would say you have a decent likelihood that the people at the desk and sorting your mail are Democrats? Yes.

Jason Hartman 5:58
What about the people picking up and delivering the mail? The carriers probably. Okay. So so you agree that most postal workers probably Democrats, okay. Do those postal workers know which districts are likely to leaning republican or democrat based on you know, their route? Do you think they know that? One would assume that they have a general idea? Yeah. So you know, general ideas, if they’re in a, like an upper middle class area, or a middle class area, or now with Trump, sort of as a populist president, working class sort of blue collar area, which Trump obviously appeals to that vote quite a bit. They know what area they’re in. Right. And the ballot is in the package. You know, you can see it’s a ballot, you know, they don’t have to open it to know what it is. Right. So you agree with that? Yeah. Yeah. So the mail carrier, if they’re in a largely republican district, they could just see ballots and decide to lose them.

Adam 6:59
They could except most states have a way to track your ballot. Well,

Jason Hartman 7:04
tell. Tell us about that.

Adam 7:05
I mean, you can literally in a lot of states, go online and see if your ballot made it and if it’s been counted,

Jason Hartman 7:11
but you can do a text alert. Okay. So first of all, I didn’t know that I didn’t vote by mail. So I didn’t use that system, or president did. Okay. Who did? Trump he votes by mail? Yeah, I said Trump went to the polls. He know what he did. I know milania did know, Trump went to the polls as well.

Adam 7:30
No, he votes absentee all the time. He may have gone this time, but the last election, the voter emailed in his absentee ballot.

Jason Hartman 7:37
Interesting. Okay, so, so you can track whether your ballot was received or not,

Adam 7:42
I did, I did not know that. I don’t know if you can in every single state, but I know in a lot of states, you can,

Jason Hartman 7:47
okay, but someone has to do that. And you know, they have to take an active role and do that and see if the ballot got there and was counted. But you could say

Adam 7:58
the same things about voting machines, though. You’re putting your vote in and who knows what’s happening when the the bits and bytes start happening? Fair, fair enough.

Jason Hartman 8:08
But that’s a lot more complicated fraud to orchestrate. You got to be a tech person and be able to hack the system or run the system. And by the way, just so you know, listeners, I did a couple of episodes on that many years ago, maybe 1012 years ago on the electronic voting machines, and the possible fraud there on my holistic survival show, maybe played those on the creating wealth show years ago, I can’t remember but look in the back catalogue for my old shows, you can learn about that stuff. But yeah, you know, what do you think? I think it’s pretty easy. Or if the if a postal carrier level and the postal sorter level for them to influence the election with these mail and balance. I just think it’s really scary. I mean, there’s more male in this time than ever before. Okay. Yes. We always had absentee ballots and stuff. I get it. But this time, it’s a thing right with with COVID. It’s, it’s all changed.

Adam 9:07
I just I believe in the goodness of humans, Jason.

Jason Hartman 9:10
I don’t think they’re doing that. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? I believe that most people are good. Well, okay. So I don’t know most people, some people, a lot of people I don’t know, I don’t

Adam 9:23
think ballots are getting lost. magically. I don’t think people are getting bags, full ballots and throwing them out. You might find ballots thrown out. But they’re going to be ballots of people who received them in the mail and decided not to vote by mail, and got rid of it. Well,

Jason Hartman 9:38
we’ll see. We’ll see. Folks, what do you think? Comment below and tell us what you think. And also please tell us where where you’re located. When you’re watching here. We’d love to hear from you, Mike Rinder and

Adam 9:49
one of my clients that every precinct in Washington also has ballot boxes if someone doesn’t feel comfortable mailing their ballot.

Jason Hartman 9:56
Yeah, I know Michael. I was on his podcast a long, long time ago. So good guy. Good guy. So I don’t think I’m showing the right comment he must have no,

Adam 10:04
he commented again, a little bit below that. Okay, so I mean every ballot every area does have ballot Drop Box Texas had lawsuits about that this time around because our governor tried to limit it to one per County. So that would mean that all of Houston, 5 million people had one ballot drop off location.

Jason Hartman 10:21
Hmm. Let me let me get worse. Yeah. Let me just jam through some of these comments here. landslide 60,000 votes. So that’s Kanye. Kanye got a 60k? Did he really? I don’t know. Okay. I don’t know, either. Okay.

Adam 10:35
So most of the voter fraud allegations and lawsuits that have actually happened that they’ve discovered had been republicans

Jason Hartman 10:42
for the record. I’m skeptical about that. Again, I haven’t researched this issue a lot. But it just seems very logical that you know that, based on the questions I asked Adam a moment ago, that that fraud is really and this is not a big orchestrated fraud. It’s just losing ballots. That’s all it is just losing that. That’s just really easy to do. You know, just super easy to do. Okay. Okay, so the gold color. You mean chicom? Charlie, Washington gov, brought up by the Chinese waiting for a Red Dawn event.

Adam 11:13
I don’t know what that means. Adam, if you do, please go ahead. Not sure. Yeah. Okay. All Time bargains of federal postal carriers decided to lose ballots. And that’s a federal felony. Yeah, I agree. It’s not worth it’s not worth the risk.

Jason Hartman 11:27
Good Book. Good luck. Good luck. Finding I mean, seriously, do you know the bar the standard by which it is to prosecute somebody for that? It’s insane. Okay. It’s like how are they gonna? People aren’t gonna chance to Jason they’re not gonna chance it kidding me. people commit crimes all day, every day. It’s all the time. Okay, so hey, sunshine girl, regular viewer from Australia.

Adam 11:52
So sunshine girl says media also lead you to believe things if they repeat them enough. Don’t let them convince you as Americans that you’re so divided that you must degenerate into fighting and civil war stick together.

Adam 12:05
Good luck with that. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 12:07
Good luck with that. Right. But I agree with it. That’s, that’s good. Okay,

Adam 12:12
my tinfoil hat says I find it odd that they’re gonna do digital money. But there’s a question about voting. blockchain. Yeah. While the blockchain would be a way to secure in the future, and you’re in Seattle. Okay. What’s

Jason Hartman 12:25
this one?

Adam 12:26
sunshine girl in the Land of Oz is drinking coffee at bedtime. So she can pretend she’s in the states with the salt.

Jason Hartman 12:33
Yeah, yeah. So a little caffeine. Hey, cheers, cheers. Do you drink in mine? Okay. And, hey, you got a fan here.

Adam 12:43
Ivana says, Go out and my voted by mail and double checked on her ballot in Miami. So you could have done it, Jason. We’re gonna vote by mail and check your ballot. And Julian flash says both sides gonna assume that mail in votes were manipulated if they lose in this race.

Jason Hartman 12:59
Of course, both sides will say that. But I think one is more susceptible to that fraud. And that’s the republicans

Adam 13:07
and Gosling’s nest, that running jelly J. New York. So software can solve all the voting problems a single on your phone that is secure with validation, you can use the vote. This is all BS. What century are we living? Well, I

Jason Hartman 13:21
do agree with that. It’s really amazing how primitive the system is I you know, it really is. But I would like to see, you know, much more voting. If it were more convenient. And we’re done electronically. You know, there would there could be a lot more voting like we could vote, you know, during the debates, and we could vote for 30 people and weed them out in runoff elections. That’s the way it should be done. You know, they do that in some countries, much better system. But we’ll see. Hey, Adam, let’s talk about the potential of a bubble. There’s just not enough to say on the election yet is there? Well, you’ll have a whole lot more in the coming weeks. I feel Yeah. It’s It’s It’s like the old saying t TT too early to tell. By the way. As many of you know, your regular listeners and viewers. We planned in election coverage this evening, at five o’clock Pacific and eight o’clock eastern and I might postpone that because I just don’t think we’re gonna know anything. You know, I think there’s just it’s just gonna be you know, I can’t stand watching the the mainstream news media when they’re just sitting there speculating. You know, they’re just, it’s just like,

Adam 14:36
mostly it was it See, CBS had a little map that they were pushing all the things to change the electoral college votes by state and to go into each individual county and I was like, man, I don’t want to follow this. But I honestly didn’t watch much election coverage last night. I didn’t feel there was a point to it.

Jason Hartman 14:55
Yeah. So folks, just know that we might postpone this evenings. event, and we might do it tomorrow, we might just push it back another day. Well, I don’t know. You know, it’s just I don’t know yet. I don’t know yet. I don’t know yet. Okay, a couple more comments here before we get to the bubble, pick a bubble, find a panic. Yeah. Well, we’re going to talk about that today.

Adam 15:16
Ken says, I am so worried about our country’s economy, if Biden gets elected, more and more is coming. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 15:23
Well, I agree. And I share your concern, Kim. That’s a very valid. Okay, so let’s talk about this. In terms of a housing bubble, you know, everybody, you know, as soon as the COVID thing really hit, and that became a significant thing. People were talking about, Hey, I can’t wait, this bubbles gonna pop, now we’re gonna have a bubble, I’m gonna get my chance, again, the chance I didn’t take during the Great Recession. And I’m ready, I’m going to pounce. And I’m going to, I’m going to make all kinds of money buying cheap houses that are distressed. And you know, I’ve said it before, but I just don’t think that’s going to be a significant thing this time around. We’ll see. But let’s talk about it today. Okay, we’re going to share some statistics. Adam has prepared some good stuff, I’ve prepared some good stuff. Let’s dive into it. So on my side, I’ve been giving a presentation that I have not shared with my broader audience about the possibility of a housing bubble. I have given this presentation, two times to live audiences. And I am going to turn it into a webinar for you. And we’ll announce that here soon. Might as well wait till we know who is going to control the executive branch who’s going to control the White House, because it might change my thinking a little bit. I don’t know. We’ll see. We’ll see. Okay, here’s the guy with a golf gardens obnoxious music going by. So I’ve got my window open. Oh, the weather in Florida is so beautiful right now, folks. It’s just it’s perfection. It’s perfection, absolute perfection. But that’s a housing bubble. So, you know, when you look at a 100 year history, right, and you know, people look at charts like this, and they say, Oh, my gosh, we must be in a bubble, look at what the housing prices have done. Look at what they’ve done. And and and you know, this is the great recession, and then it goes back down. Now, this is the housing price index. Okay. That’s an index concept. So that’s different than housing prices. It is not exactly the same thing. So here’s another index, right. So this is the most widely quoted the Case Shiller index, which has all sorts of flaws and all kinds of problems. I’ve busted the myth with this. And I’ll just quickly say that 75% of the Case Shiller index is based on cyclical markets. As you know, I talked about three types of markets, linear, cyclical, and hybrid markets. And cyclical markets are more volatile markets, they do not reflect the broader country as a whole. in the country. There are almost 400 m essays or metropolitan statistical areas, the Case Shiller index, the primary index, only profiles, 20 cities, all right, and 15 of those 20 cities are cyclical markets that we would never recommend for investment. So you’ve just got to understand that the weighting of this whole index is misleading. And if you’d like more about that, you know, it takes a long time to explain and discuss it, check out my podcast, the creating wealth show where we’ve gone in depth on that topic, and discussed it, but it is what it is. Okay, so this chart is the Case Shiller index as faulty as it is. But you know, it is what it is. So he compares the Consumer Price Index, which is also faulty, the CPI, which is a reflection of inflation, okay, and we’ve talked about that in detail ad nauseum on the podcast. But if you look at the consumer price index, compared to the Case Shiller housing price index, you can see you know, here we are, at that, that peak, that sort of 2006 era, and then we see it come down, we sit, go back up again, and we see where it is now. So people look at this chart, without thinking without understanding. And they think oh, my gosh, we must be in a bubble again, because there’s this big departure between the consumer price index, and the Case Shiller housing price index. Well, I’m not sure about that, and you shouldn’t be sure about it either. This is very, very misleading. And we’re gonna show you why today. And before we get into Adams part of the presentation, I just want to tell you, that your rich uncle, Jerome Powell, and my rich uncle and Adams, rich uncle Jerome Powell, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, the largest, most influential, most powerful central bank on planet Earth, okay. That is backed by the US US government in an unholy alliance a whole different discussion we won’t get into has given Jerome Powell has given all of us a huge gift. And we better take advantage of it. And we’re going to share with you why today. Again, we’re going to do a webinar on with a lot more detail on what we talked about today. But we’re just going to give you a little sample of it today. So, you know, Adam, how do you invest in a bubble? But the first question is, are we in a bubble? Well, maybe you don’t want to answer that yet. It’s your turn.

Adam 20:35
So this was put around whenever I was talking to somebody on the phone, and I kind of got the whole Well, of course, you think Real Estate’s going? Well, because you’re helping people buy real estate. And so it leads into the question of, do we actually think now is now actually a good time to buy properties? Or are you just putting money into assets that are way too expensive? So if you go to the next one, go to the next slide. The question you have to ask yourself is are Jason and I just a bunch of carnivals, and most of you probably know, perma bowls is a permanent bowl on the market and the stock market. You can’t be a perma bowl. You can’t be a perma bear, it’ll get you on TV. It won’t make you a ton of money. In the long run.

Jason Hartman 21:18
I completely agree.

Adam 21:20
So the most important thing to remember, if you’re looking at this and coming at this is the fact as you’re looking at the housing bubble. commandment number five, Thou shalt not gamble, be a prudent long term value investor. Never get rich, quick gambler speculator or flipper by investing only in properties that make good financial sense the day you buy them. So when you’re looking at is this a housing bubble? The answer? Maybe? Yes, there is a national Case Shiller housing bubble. But the question is, is my market in a housing bubble? Right. And

Jason Hartman 22:00
that’s going to be something that I want to talk about today. Okay. And let me pose one much broader issue, on top of everything that Adams said. And I just said, is that the first question is, does it matter? Yeah. Okay. And here’s what I mean by that. Most people view the whole real estate market as this one dimensional asset class, and that is such bad thinking, Okay, it is just faulty thinking. And the reason is, is that it’s not about buy low, sell high. It’s not just about appreciation or depreciation. But that’s the way most people view it. And that is absolutely silly. It’s stupid. It should not be viewed that way. It’s a multi dimensional asset class. And as such, you’ve got, of course, price, you know, appreciation, depreciation, the value of the property, but you’ve also got the income from the property, the tax benefits from the property, the opportunity cost related to what happens when you wait, okay, if you’re trying to time the market, you know, it has been proven over and over again, that in in like, any asset class, the market timers never win overall, whether it be stocks, bonds, real estate, even cryptocurrencies, you know, all of this stuff. Okay. market timing is a fool’s errand. Okay. But, you know, it with with income property, it’s the best because you don’t depend on the price, the value of the asset, because you’ve got that income that sustains you through rough times. And when market declines. And you know, there are different rules for market declines in the real estate world, of course, one is that interest rates might be too high, and housing affordability would be really low. Well, what happens when that happens? You have to ask yourself, what happens? So when that happens, people don’t buy as many houses so they stay in the rental pool. I mean, you only really have three choices you can buy, you can rent, or you can be homeless, okay, someone at one of my conferences, shout it out. No, you can live with your parents. Yes, I guess that’s a fourth option, but in the broad scheme of things, buy rent or be homeless, right. So when the market is, by most people’s eyes not doing well, meaning prices are depressed, and everybody thinks well, it’s not a good time to buy or interest rates are too high or it’s too hard to qualify for a housing affordability is too low. Whatever reason is keeping them from buying. The end result of that is they’re staying in the rental pool. And if they stay in the rental pool, that puts upward pressure on rental prices. Great. Good for you. Okay, landlords sit tight, raise the rent. Gang, you, you won, you won. So good for you. Right? So it’s a multi dimensional asset class. And all you have to do with the beauty of income property, the most historically proven asset class in the entire world, is just adjust your strategy as times change. That’s it. Sometimes you’re in a cash flow market. Sometimes you’re in a capital appreciation market. But you’re always in a cash flow market in terms of the cash flow, it hardly ever goes down. And that almost never happens. Okay? I mean, I don’t want to say never, because it does happen sometimes. But almost never, you got to cash flow market. Sometimes you have an improving cash flow market, though. But you always have a tax benefit market, you always have leverage, you always have all of those ideal as the acronym characteristics we put as the first slide in today’s presentation. Okay. So, like Adam says, My commandment number five, Thou shalt not gamble. You want to be a prudent long term investor, and you buy properties that make sense the day you buy them.

Adam 26:16
Okay, Adam, what were you gonna say? I was gonna say, you need to remember that when you buy the asset of set a floor. And if you buy an asset that makes sense, the day you buy it, then you’re currently standing over the floor. So as you’re able to raise your rent, and raise, you know, the appreciation and all of that your floor is not changing. Your floor is there. And it’s us gives you a bigger and bigger drop that you can have before you reach that floor. And it’s important to remember, even in bear markets, you can make money in the stock market, people make money in a down market. If you make money in a down market in real estate as well. You can make money in a bull market, you can make money in a bull market in real estate, you can make money either way. It’s like Jason was saying you just have to adjust your strategy. So that is why you can be a permeable in real estate. You just have to adjust your bullish goals in a lot in some ways or strategies,

Jason Hartman 27:12
right? Yeah, absolutely. Let’s grab a couple more questions and comments folks be feel free to post them. Tell us where you’re watching from or listening from and post any questions or comments add them it’s all

Adam 27:24
Julian flash does politicians act like they are celebrities? news anchors act like they’re politicians. And that’s that’s true and it’s wrong but you’re it’s a good observation for sure. Sunshine girl or any of you buying real estate I am Australia pledged more QE and cut interest rates 2.1% yesterday gift you haven’t don’t look that gift horse in the mouth. Yeah. foil hat says vans on sale down by the river. Hey, by the way, I

Jason Hartman 27:51
got to mention something about vans. And Adam, you’re a millennial. So you know, I don’t know if you’re aware of this. But there’s like a whole culture of millennials in this country living in vans, traveling around the country living what they call van life. I only recently became aware of this. It’s absolutely shocking. Many of them have you know huge YouTube followings. They talk about our stuff their van how they live in their van, where they go how they do what’s called boondocking, which means not camping at a campsite. So it’s, you know, free they just camp on the street. So when you see vans on streets now there’s a lot of times there’s people sleeping in them. And I don’t mean like homeless people, I mean, voluntarily with the who are like digital marketers, usually YouTube influencer types, living in their vans. It’s absolutely unbelievable.

Adam 28:43
Yeah, and there’s even nowadays, as a homeschooling parent, I can say this, there are people who do what’s called road schooling. And they take their family, and they drive around and go to different

Jason Hartman 28:55
different states, different cities, different venues to show their kids kind of the all about the United States and the history. And so they like they’ll go to Philadelphia and you know, go see the Liberty Bell and study about that. And they won’t go to Philadelphia now because there’s riots. And guess what? They better go and show their kids the country and the Liberty Bell and the statues before they all get taken down. They’re almost all gone now, thanks to the tolerant, loving, compassionate accepting Democrats. All right, Adam, who do you think the rioters are? I’m just curious as a Democrat who’s who’s writing? Actually, it’s both sides. Oh, God.

Adam 29:36
Okay, you’re right there. They have arrested people at the quote unquote, liberal rallies causing trouble who are right wing extremists.

Jason Hartman 29:48
I don’t deny that there’s like three of them. Okay. I don’t deny that there’s a few. But by and large, the writers are Democrats. Okay. There’s just No question about that. I mean, do you agree that at least the majority of the writers are Democrats? Probably okay see Adams a reasonable guy folks that’s why I like him so much. He’s a little bit wrong but he’s reasonable.

Adam 30:18
Okay, so the gold color says Chai calm California the list of sellouts have passed and president of our rights money and everything else is almost gone. Thanks to Pelosi equals Flopsy, Newsome, waters, etc, etc. pops. I don’t know if that’s a typo or if there was a derogatory comment. I’m

Jason Hartman 30:36
not I think it’s derogatory, but I don’t know what it means. I think it’s just kind of a funny who Pelosi is Flopsy and Gavin nuisance and, and so forth. Yeah, California is a disaster. I mean, I think even even even a democrat would have to admit that or at least a democrat living outside of California. Adam, what do you say about California? You think it’s a disaster? It needs a lot of help put it that way, at least, how to get so messed up, Adam.

Adam 31:02
I don’t follow it enough. I have a feeling I know what you want me to say.

Jason Hartman 31:05
Yeah. Okay, I’m not trying to influence.

Adam 31:09
I genuinely don’t know how California spent their their tax money as a state. I haven’t followed it nearly enough to know how they’ve spent their money and how they’ve ended up where they are.

Jason Hartman 31:20
Hey, by the way, folks, scrolling across the bottom of the screen is our most popular ever webinar on estate planning, asset protection and tax planning to reduce your tax bill and, and hey, in election time, there’s a lot of talk about taxes. So you can check out that absolutely free fantastic educational webinar at Jason Hartman comm slash protect that’s at the bottom of your screen scrolling across Jason hartman.com slash protect that as a brand new webinar. It’s about what two weeks old on that topic and people have really just loved that webinar. So go check it out. Jason hartman.com slash protect.

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