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Josh has been a member since March 10th 2020, and has created 77 posts from scratch.

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AMA 386: Jim Rickards on The Death of Money, Aftermath, Currency Wars & The New Great Depression

Jason Hartman talks with Jim Richards, author of The New Great Depression. Jim shares his discoveries about the lockdown, the stock market’s influence, and asset bubbles vs. asset inflation.

Jim Rickard’s Book: The New Great Depression

Key Takeaways:

[3:20] You cannot understand The New Great Depression without looking into the pandemic.

[4:00] “What I discovered was that the scientists don’t agree with each other.”

[10:25] Have the lockdowns killed more people than they have saved?

[16:00] The stock market no longer bears any relation to the real economy.

[20:00] Did the lockdown cause a pent up demand?

[24:00] Asset bubbles or asset inflation?

[25:35] What causes inflation?

[28:45] Your Keynesian multiplier works up to a debt to GDP ratio of about 90%.

[33:20] Why buy gold and silver if you’re not afraid of inflation?

[36:25] Bitcoin, will it ever have a chance of being a global currency or taking over the dollar?

[44:00] Millions of people are migrating out of major cities; where are they going?







Jason Hartman Quick Start

Jason Hartman PropertyCast (Libsyn)

Jason Hartman PropertyCast (iTunes)


AMA 385: Mortgage Update 2021 January with Adam

Investment Counselor Adam talks to one of the lenders in the Jason Hartman network about what’s going on with interest rates these days. People are locking rates below 3.5% on properties $100,000 and up! With rates being at a historic low, what is the timeline on closing a deal?



AMA 384: 2021 SMART Goals! 5-Year Investment Plan

New Year, New Goals, Same proven asset class! Jason Hartman invites you to celebrate with him another fantastic year of prosperity for all real estate investors practicing some of Hartman’s proven investment techniques. Following the celebration, we must look for the “what next” plan or goal. How do you build your goals? Do you write them down? Do you create realistically achievable goals?



Key Takeaways:

[1:30] Let’s celebrate our prosperous year of 2020 and look forward to another great one to follow.

[5:00] The Hartman Stimulus Payment CONTEST

[8:45] Be a self-sufficient person.

[10:00] 80% of Americans do not have goals, and even fewer have written them down.

[10:40 New Years’ Resolutions are so cliche.

[12:15] A goal should be just out of reach but not out of sight.

[15:20] The Winner of the 5-Year Plan Video Contest

[15:40] Winner, Michelle, laid out how she and her family intend to achieve their income property goals.

[21:20] It’s the kind of person we become just by trying.

[22:00] SMART Goals

[23:00] Smartsheet from monday.com

[26:50] Balance out your portfolio.






Jason Hartman Quick Start

Jason Hartman PropertyCast (Libsyn)

Jason Hartman PropertyCast (iTunes)


Launching a Digital Bank by Chris Skinner

In today’s episode, Jason Hartman is joined by Chris Skinner, Chairman at the Financial Services Club and founder of Finanser. They start the show by talking about banks being challenged technologically and the antiquated banking systems that need updates recently forced by COVID-19. Jason and Chris discuss launching a digital bank and switching gears to robotics and technology in the future. They also posed this question: on robotics and essential work, what happens when people no longer need to work?

Announcer 0:01
This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.

Announcer 0:12
Welcome to the American monetary associations podcast where we explore how monetary policy impacts the real lives of real people, and the action steps necessary to preserve wealth and enhance one’s lifestyle.

Jason Hartman 0:29
It’s my pleasure to welcome Chris Skinner. He is chairman at the financial services club and founder of financer, he’s author of the best selling books, digital bank strategies to launch or become a digital bank, digital human. The fourth revolution of humanity includes everyone in the new book doing digital lessons from leaders. Chris, welcome. How are you?

Chris Skinner 0:51
Yeah, I’m good. Jason. Thanks for having me on.

Jason Hartman 0:53
It’s good to have you. And you’re coming to us from Poland a great place. I’ve been to many times, what city are you in?

Chris Skinner 0:59
Just outside Warsaw in the suburbs? Luckily, we moved to a place with a big garden in November. So it’s not been so bad for the last three months, we couldn’t get out

Jason Hartman 1:08
of the house. Right? Absolutely. Yeah, the world has really changed. And all of this change is accelerating what economist Joseph Schumpeter called creative destruction. And it is really accelerating change in the world in so many ways, a lot of it for the good. I mean, a lot of things that would have taken five or 10 years to happen, in terms of convenience, technology, so forth are happening right away. And so there’s definitely some good, good that’s coming out of this, no question about it. But tell us what’s going on in the world of money and banking, and how that affects all of us and in the economy in general?

Chris Skinner 1:47
Well, I’ve been saying for a long time that banks are challenged fundamentally by technology, because they have, in many instances, not upgraded their systems for over half a century. A stunning statistic from Reuters is that 43% of the big bank systems in America run on COBOL. That was developed back in the 1970s. In most cases. So this is a issue because today, everything has been born on the internet. And everything is moving to be cloud computing based, and allowing people to plug and play software wherever they want to be able to work in whatever way they want. And that’s led to what’s called a FinTech revolution in the last decade, and in particular, in the last decade, there’s been a big pressure on banks to move to being more digital. And they’ve resisted that move, because they have leadership that doesn’t understand technology that well. And then the lockdown arrived at one had to work from home. And they all suddenly found that they left those decisions way too late, because they didn’t have a digital backup, the physical operations only had physical backup. And suddenly they needed digital backup, and they didn’t have it. So we’re going to see a massive change, not just in banks, but in retail and normal institutions to the digitalization over the next couple of years that you might have might have taken a decade is going to happen in 12 months.

Jason Hartman 3:08
Yeah. So their old systems, the software that runs their businesses just won’t integrate with the internet, or how does that play out?

Chris Skinner 3:18
Well, a lot of people describe the systems of any large institution that’s been around for more than 50 years as spaghetti structures. And what they’ve got is a lot of underlying core technology that some dating back to the 1980s 70s, or even in some cases, the 1960s, you unbeliev and they’ve layered everything on top of it through the years. So it’s now become incredibly complex. And I liken it to the New York subway, you know, if you try and put it in a brand new subway line, navigating through the existing subway system is incredibly difficult. And that’s what banks are trying to do, and large companies are trying to do when he add the internet to the old systems. Instead, what they should be doing is re architecting completely fresh and new for the internet era and the digital era, and eventually dumping all those old systems.

Jason Hartman 4:09
So tell us how it will change. I mean, what can we expect in what will happen to the criminal organization known as Wells Fargo? Or the criminal organization known as chase or Bank of America? You know, they’ve all had their, their foibles. But lately, Wells Wow, it’s like one scandal after another. It’s incredible. Are these banks just going to kind of fade away? Will we all be using Venmo? Or what what’s going to happen? What does this future look like? Well, I

Chris Skinner 4:40
keep coming back to the fact that unfortunately, the big banks will not go away and they’ll just get bigger, you know, we thought they would disappear after 2008 and the global financial crisis but they’ve actually gained market share and they’re bigger than they ever were, and they’ve consolidated

Jason Hartman 4:53
more there’s a lot less choice right? Because the the too big to fail, created a consolidation of

Chris Skinner 5:01
Exactly. And that will continue. And a lot of that has to do with the way in which the financial system is completely integrated into the governmental and economic system. And so you can’t take that away. And because a lot of it has to do with trust, and regulation, then it’s very difficult for it to change. And in my lifetime, I’ve spent many times thinking that banks would eventually disappear, but they just get bigger because of that regulatory structure. There’s an interesting statistic again, in the US, which is the average bank in America deals with 128,000 regulations, the average technology company deals with 27,005 times more regulations to deal with. And if you’re dealing with pure technology play, but what is happening is the pure technology players are starting to make an impact, particularly around credit loans, payments and savings. So you’re absolutely right, when you mentioned Venmo, or square or stripe, or Lending Club, I’m Sophie, all of these new companies have just appeared in the last 12 years Born on the internet after the financial crisis, I really started to have an impact. But the impact is on the margins and profits. It’s not on the core business of banking.

Jason Hartman 6:10
But stripe isn’t a bank, for example, that’s just a merchant credit card processor, right? Or is it? Is it more than that? Well,

Chris Skinner 6:17
it’s a little bit more than that. I mean, that my favorite FinTech company, and FinTech is this term that describes the integration with finance and technology that’s come around in the last just over a decade. And a lot of that’s resonating around cloud computing the internet and platforms and marketplaces, which will turn you in but but

Jason Hartman 6:33
I don’t get it I mean, authorize dotnet a big old credit card processor. They have a website. So does stripe stripes is better. But what’s the real site Jason

Chris Skinner 6:45
stripes unique aspect is it they offer beautiful sort of piece of code that allows checkout to be created really easy and simply for anybody trying to do merchant checkout as a company on the internet and the code, and they launched in 2011. And they’re now worth 36 billion.

Jason Hartman 7:06
I know, they’re they’re amazing. I follow their

Chris Skinner 7:09
context. And one of the oldest and biggest banks in Germany is commerce bank. And stripers, over seven commerce banks in value. So amazing. Isn’t this a phenomena?

Jason Hartman 7:19
Yeah, but just to ferret that out a little more. And we don’t, you know, we don’t have to belabor this point. If you sign up with authorized dotnet, to do your merchant processing, that’s sort of an old company, or you sign up with stripe. I mean, they both have integrations, a lot of various merchant websites, just have like a one click integration, they’ll both integrate, right? or What am I missing there, that makes stripe such a big deal.

Chris Skinner 7:43
I think this is the simplicity and beauty of the code that they do accept an offer and that they do have competition does not from companies like authorize dotnet. It’s more from companies like ad yen, or alipay players with different industries and countries in different markets. And the reason why stripe has been so successful is that they got a lot of traction with the new big players, the sort of Ubers, or lifts or Airbnb ease of this world. And as a result, that traction gained a lot of momentum. And when people are developing code, they look at the plug and play code, which are called API so they can get from other players. And what they tell them is stripes, the you know, the engineers and developers that are developing code online, look at their code and go, Oh, it’s just art. It’s beautiful. So it’s almost like saying, Would you rather have, you know, authorize dotnet? Which will be let’s see. You, you too? Or would you like to have Snow Patrol? Or Taylor Swift or whatever, but it’s kind of just some old guys on the block on your new guys. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 8:48
something a geek would appreciate for sure. Okay, what about all the other services that banks offer? I mean, banks offer a variety, a whole cafeteria of services, and they largely suck at it. They’re pretty bad. The surface is pretty terrible at banks, everybody complains about them, kind of the way people used to complain about the phone company, the old traditional phone company, you know, are these services all discombobulated among a bunch of different companies now? Or, or maybe none of them exist outside of banks. And in terms of, you know, certainly services. I mean, there’s a whole infrastructure of various services, right, a big variety. Yeah,

Chris Skinner 9:27
I mean, what’s happening, and I often talk about this specifically is that there’s 1000s of new companies doing one specific thing like the stripes and the origins of this world and the squares, just doing a retail payment or merchant payment online with a bit of code. So that’s stuff that is replacing just a very small piece of processing within the financial network. And when you think about the financial network, investing in mortgages and real estate and payments and high street deposit, taking full service accounts, etc, etc. There’s a myriad of services that banks are offering And what’s actually going to happen over time is they’re going to start providing those services by picking these guys who the new kids on the block and bringing them to the customer. I call it the curation of technology, which banks haven’t got there yet. But some are moving in this direction. More and more quickly are saying, we know we can’t develop everything ourselves, we’re not good at everything, we’re going to start bringing the best things out there to the customer. And we’ll do the integration, we’ll do the delivery, because why should you or I, as a customer, don’t find out Can I trust stripe or square or add Yuan or Ali pay, let the bank do it for me, and then bring that to me and make it something that’s a really great service.

Jason Hartman 10:36
One of the bank names that comes to mind, that was probably from the sort of the first.com bubble era is Ally Bank. You know, I remember I called them once, and it seemed as though the disconnect was they just do consumer banking, and I need business banking. So they want for me, these old fashioned banks really seem to still have a lock on like, real business level services when it comes to banking. I mean, I assume that will change. But with all the know your customer rules, and so forth to how do you really operate an online bank when you can’t meet your customer? That’s a, I guess, another part of it right?

Chris Skinner 11:16
Well, times are changing. And it’s all around timing, to be honest. And it’s um, you know, for many years, there’s been many technologies at once forecast will change the way we do travel, shopping, buying houses by doing banking, you name it. And it hasn’t actually made huge differences yet. So alley bank was kind of maybe before their time, and they got China in the US, which are doing pretty well. And in the UK, it’s been really interesting, because there’s lots of new banks that are being launched. The two biggest names on monzo, and Starling and stalling certainly been going for three years already has almost 3% of the UK small business marketplace, Monza has got 3 million account holders, which is pretty substantial in a market of 30 million accounts. So you start to see changes happening. And it’s just timing. And one of the really interesting things about lot the likes of chime, and monzo is what they end up doing is becoming quite hip and cool as brands because people like to show their card and their service. And so they get your lifestyle payments and and services. And the old banks still maybe you have an account with them, you still might have an account with a wells or Chase, but they become boring or bank with boring All bills. So it’s your utility bills for electricity and gas or whatever is your mortgages and loans and foreign exchange. But your everyday living is in the new hip and cool bank.

Jason Hartman 12:40
Interesting. Let’s switch gears and talk about your other two books for a moment if we can Well, really not too. But first of all, strategies to launch and become a digital bank. Can anyone do this? Is this? Is this a business opportunity for the common person? Or is it still only for banksters? banksters.

Chris Skinner 12:58
This is for anybody that’s for absolutely anybody. One of my favorite stories was a bank that was launched in Britain. Unfortunately, it didn’t succeed for various reasons, mainly to do with funding. But it did get quite a lot of users and a lot of support amongst the millennial and Gen X community. And it was a bank called loot launched by 21 year old University dropout.

Jason Hartman 13:23
Yeah, I love it. So, but but in the US, I mean, you’ve got to get FDIC insurance. And that’s got to be super complicated, right? navigating that you’ve got to have, you know, a million FBI background checks and tons of regulations. So when you talk about launching a digital bank, is that outside of the US, or can you do it?

Chris Skinner 13:45
I mean, Monza and then 26, and others are coming to the US and Europe. And what they’ve realized is that the best way to start a bank is not to be a bank is to be a prepaid card with a cool brand. And then you build the online community, the social network, and finance. And you do it in such a way that people like the way that you talk and the transparency that you offer, and gradually launch more and more services. And yeah, Luke’s going back to being watched by 21 year old University dropout. Again, it wasn’t a full bank, what it provided is the front end app, and then brought in API’s and back end services from other providers who did a lot of the regulatory piece, for example. So y card is a big financial back office provider in Europe that does a lot of the pain of regulation and allows people to go on do the cool stuff at the front.

Jason Hartman 14:36
But how much capital Are you talking about that someone needs to start paying? I mean, that sounds like a just a giant undertaking. I do see the way I see the path that you mentioned. And I think that is really cool. By the way. You start with your audience. And you you start with maybe one application, and you build from there and just to keep adding services, but when do you Become a bank bank, you know, sort of what’s the definition of addicts, I guess when you take deposits, right? That’s a bank.

Chris Skinner 15:07
I mean, to build to be a full bank, you have to take deposits. Yeah, that’s you have to have the FDIC, capital coverage of all of your operations. And you also have to have the due diligence of the Federal Reserve, looking over your shoulder making sure that you’re doing the right things, you’ve got the right governance, the right people on the executive team, etc. That sounds

Jason Hartman 15:25
like a lot of money and compliance costs, and lawyers, accountants, auditors, etc.

Chris Skinner 15:31
So first off is Jason, the minimum amount, you need to be a full service bank from the get go is $30 million. And that’s just to get the license, that’s not to launch the operations, that’s just to get through the gate, right.

Jason Hartman 15:42
So $30 million, is considered ultra wealthy, 30 million net worth and above. And so I don’t think a lot of our listeners will qualify for that, I actually know that a couple of them will.

Chris Skinner 15:55
If you roll it back to my university dropout, you can launch the tertiary services with $50,000, you don’t need 30 million. And then you build and build and build. And as you get the momentum, you get the venture capital and investor support, you get the customer support, and you take it from there. So it’s step by step, don’t try and eat an elephant all at once. Do it one piece at a time.

Jason Hartman 16:18
Okay, so the future and you know, in your book, the digital human, you talk about robotics and other fascinating things. Let’s switch gears and talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I

Chris Skinner 16:29
mean, I’m a big fan of technology. I’ve always been in the technology industry in financial services, which is why I was talking about those two things. And I always focused on the future, because that’s what we don’t know. But what was interesting is that until the pandemic, I’ve pretty much been traveling non stop for a decade, and I’ve seen nearly every nook and cranny of the world. And I generally ended up in museums and churches and temples, learning a lot about the history of humanity. And it kind of struck me during those travels that we initially became human because of shared beliefs, because we could communicate because we have a voice. And then we had another revolution when we became civilized and created farming, so we could live in cities and towns. And then we had, and at that point, we invented money. And we had another revolution when we started to connect across borders and across continents, and went through the Industrial Revolution, which is when we invented banking. And now we’re going through another revolution because for the first time ever, in humanity’s history, every single human on Earth can connect directly in real time, anytime, all the time. And you and I are experiencing that right now. Because we’re on different sides of the world. And I have zoom calls almost every day where I’m meeting people in every single country of the world. But the fact I still have that global connectivity, although I’m sitting at home for the last three months is quite incredible. that’s never been something available to humanity before. And it’s changing the way we think and do things. And a lot of what’s happening right now is going to turbocharge that technology transformation. I just was writing something about 2030 arrived in 2020, which is because when everyone’s been locked in at home, suddenly everyone said, Well, we have to do things differently. We have to shop from home, get everything delivered. And that behavioral change is going to be a fundamental shift that blankly and it will impact your audience massively, massively because of the real estate drop. You know, in the UK, I just got a statistic and they just ease the lockdown and everyone’s gone to the shops. But compared to a year ago, the numbers that went to the shops is down 69%

Jason Hartman 18:28
Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Skinner 18:29
Yeah. Amazon and co are going through the roof. Yeah, right.

Jason Hartman 18:32
And you know, the three primary value drivers for real estate have always been even since we were living in caves, location, location, location. And eight years ago, in 2012, I started saying that location is less meaningful than it’s ever been in human history. I started saying that on my show back then, eight years ago, and I was primarily saying that not necessarily because of all the technologies and you know, we had WebEx 20 years ago, okay, you know, this, we had Skype many years ago to these technologies are not really new, but the adoption has been, you know, somewhat mediocre, really, until the last three months, which is great. I mean, there, that’s wonderful that people are finally, really, really using these things. I mean, even my mother now will use all this stuff, right? She wouldn’t work. And the reason I said that in 2012 was because of the rise of autonomous vehicles, the self driving car was gonna change the location being so meaningful. And you know, like you said, You live in Poland, in somewhat out of the way place it sounds like and you can still be fully connected. That’s great. That’s incredible. You know,

Chris Skinner 19:48
I was just gonna say there’s two big big behavioral shifts that happens immediately this lockdown came in. One is that for some reason, everyone wants to connect on a video call which we never did before. quite happy with You know, a phone call. Yeah. And actually, you know, we’re connecting more and more often. So take your mother and my mother, I mean, my mom is 92. And I’m talking two or three times a week on zoom, when I used to speak to a one time a week on the telephone, yeah. But the other second big shift in behavior is that people have downloaded loads and loads of apps to have more things that they can do easily on their mobile devices, specifically, mobile banking. And a lot of people were worried about using digital bank services, that’s, again, completely fundamentally shifted. Now, we’re not going to go back to the way that we were doing things before. And one of the trends that I spotted going to your point from 2012, about location, location location is, you know, I saw it in China first, which is, and, and India, which has a lot of entrepreneurs, who had to move to cities to get work, have now gone back to the villages, because they’re using the internet to work, right. And that is a massive shift in the way in which urbanization and society will operate.

Jason Hartman 20:59
Right. But it’s also a digital divide, because some people can’t do that. And then that’s what, that’s what we’re really seeing. And I think that’s going to shift the pay structure a lot. I think all of these people that have been doing these physical jobs have sort of been getting gypped, they haven’t really shared a lot of the prosperity in the economy. I mean, it’s kind of odd to me that, like, Why do Why is it always been that food workers get paid so poorly? You know, if you’re a waitress, you can make good money with tips, right? Or at least in the States, you can. But you know, if you’re the cook in the back, unless you’re like a famous celebrity chef or something, you’re getting meager wages, and that job isn’t very enjoyable, in my opinion. It’s just sort of a it’s odd that it’s that way. Like I don’t know why it evolved that way. I mean, obviously, a lot of people have that skill, a lot of people can cook. So there’s there’s not a rarity to it. But a lot of people can do digital work to the technologies become so easy. thoughts on that

Chris Skinner 22:00
was interesting. Going back to your earlier question, which I didn’t really answers some about robotics and artificial intelligence, the word robot actually comes from where I live right now, Poland. It was first used in the Czech Republic, which is next door country, and it to describe forced labor, doing drudgery. And that’s what robot means that it’s doing drudgery work, right. And so many people are doing that sort of work about What amazed me. And again, to your point is that when we had this lockdown, who were defined as essential workers, well, it wasn’t bankers and technology. Exactly. Right. And hospitals and driving buses

Jason Hartman 22:39
and working at the grocery store. Yeah,

Chris Skinner 22:41
yeah, exactly. And so what’s gonna happen? And this is a huge debate, and I don’t know the answer, being honest, because I’m not an economist. And this isn’t an economic question is what happens when people no longer need to work? What? How will we structure society?

Jason Hartman 22:57
I’ve been wrestling with that forever. I mean, is it universal, basic income. You know, when you look at the robotic revolution, it’s way more than just these menial, repetitive tasks, you know, flipping burgers, etc. It’s writing music, writing articles, doing all sorts of things humans do now. Are we all just going to live in this world of abundance that’s created by the machines? Or is there going to be massive unemployment and civil unrest? I mean, which way is it going to go?

Chris Skinner 23:23
Well, we got a little bit of an answer around it during the last three months in the some Coronavirus crisis, which is, what have we been doing at home? Yeah, in my case, I’ve been getting much closer to my loved ones sharing a lot more time with them, learning trying to learn to speak Polish, which I’ve never had the time to do before. I’ve been getting better on the piano, which I played 40 years ago, but haven’t touched since. And that sort of stuff. And so it really says that online a lucky position because I can afford to do that. If you don’t have the, you know, universal basic income, if that has some way that we would just get the basics of food and shelter, then you have an issue. And I think what we’ll see is that governments will be forced in the next 10 to 20 years as more and more jobs are automated, that they will have to give people food and shelter as a basic human right.

Jason Hartman 24:09
Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree with you. Even my most libertarian friends that don’t want the government to do any of this stuff are saying UBI is the future. It’s it’s gonna happen. And it’s all we’re already seeing evidence of that now. You know, I agree. I had Andrew Yang, the presidential candidate on my show that was a big part of his platform was universal basic income. And that’s going to happen, right? That’s it’s just got to do

Chris Skinner 24:36
maybe, because the adapt there’s a downside to it, which you’ve seen, maybe on the first peoples reservations in the USA, or we’ve seen in experiments that have been taking place in the Nordic communities in Finland and Norway, which is if people are given everything, so they don’t have a work ethic. They can fall fall off the wagon and start to abuse themselves. So it’s kind of where’s the pride in not doing anything? You have to encourage people to do something. But the question is, what are we going to encourage people to do? Is it to be creative and share emotions and relationships? Or is it going to be to do drudgery? It definitely might be to do to drudgery. So it will rise to be something new above what we are today, I

Jason Hartman 25:20
hope. Yeah, there’s definitely a moral hazard in that, and we’re already seeing it with these enhanced unemployment benefits in the US, people won’t come back to work. Now that we’re having things reopen. A lot of people are just deciding, yeah, you know, I’ll just stay home and collect, collect my government money. So it’s quite interesting. Yeah, yeah. Wrap it up with a closing thought and give out your website.

Chris Skinner 25:42
sure that the website is the financer.com with an S, because it’s short for financial services, and also Chris Skinner dot global, which is where you’ll find everything about me.

Jason Hartman 25:52
All right, any closing thought you want to mention?

Chris Skinner 25:55
I think bottom line is, you know, some people said that I’m way too optimistic because digital human ends with the view that eventually we moved to being far more like Star Trek, and Gene Roddenberry when he invented Star Trek, categorically refused to allow money to be exchanged, because in the future, his view was that we deal with the betterment of humanity and not with the generation of wealth. That’s an interesting thought. Whatever happened, I don’t know. But it would be interesting if you’re just a better humans.

Jason Hartman 26:23
Right. That would be interesting. We’ll see if that can happen. Chris Skinner, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

Inflation Sectors & Rent Collection, Fear from Coronavirus

To start the show, Jason Hartman and Investment counselor Doug talks about people moving out of high-density areas to suburban areas. They’re also giving their thoughts on the ultimate collapse of the “middle-class fiction,” where the whole middle class is being hollowed out. Jason and Doug also discuss rent stability between residential and commercial tenants and the work from home option, and how the people are liking it.

Announcer 0:01
This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.

Announcer 0:12
Welcome to the American monetary associations Podcast, where we explore how monetary policy impacts the real lives of real people. And the action steps necessary to preserve wealth and enhance one’s lifestyle.

Jason Hartman 0:29
It’s my pleasure to welcome one of our investment counselors back to the show. And that is Doug, you’ve heard him on the show for maybe 10 years now on and off. And you also may have seen him speak live at our conferences. He’s the guy that does the portfolio builder game, and all those great games that have entertained so many of you. And so many of you have really said some very positive things about those end, Doug, you know, the challenge, we’ve got our virtual meet the Masters coming up, and your chance, right, is to do the game or a game, because you always modify it a little bit every time, which is really nice for our regulars to keep coming back over and over. We want them to have something new, not just the same old thing over and over again. And I don’t know what your plan is for virtual meet the masters. But this is the first time you’ll be doing the portfolio builder game, or maybe you’re changing the name to virtually

Doug 1:26
right. So Exactly, yes. virtuals coming up. Well, one of the things that we’re that we’re really trying to orient our challenge around, is getting people to really take action, because, as you said, right, there’s not a bad time to buy real estate, but we are really at almost a mother of all buying opportunities, not from not because prices are depressed, like they were in 2010 11. But more because, you know, we’re really on the precipice of a multi year of possibly a generation long migration away from urban cores out towards suburban areas. And so this is really probably one of the better times in the past 30 or 40 years to purchase, the kind of real estate that we offer the detached single family residential rentals.

Jason Hartman 2:09
Yeah, yeah, no, it’s really, you know, nobody wants to live in a high density area anymore. It used to just be about Coronavirus, and that fear, but now it’s also about civil unrest. And when you see what’s happening in some of these cities, it is just really scary. I mean, the police are literally giving up pulling out, like I said on the show recently, you know, if there ever was a reason to go buy a gun or five, go buy a gun or five, and get trained on how to use it, and have adequate ammunition, you know, it might be now because we are really seeing another time where the police either can’t or just won’t protect you. And that’s pretty scary. Now, you know, I’m looking at the world falling apart. If you know, we’re all seeing that from our own perspective, because we all live in different places. And we all have different lives. And people have asked me Well, how you doing over the past several months, I’ve heard that a lot. And it’s like, I’m fine. My life hasn’t. Other than not getting on an airplane, which I actually appreciate, unlike my life is quite fine. I mean, I live in suburbia. And everything’s quite nice around here. No, no problems whatsoever. Everything’s great. But I tell you, if I lived in a city, it doesn’t even have to be a big city or super high density. If I lived in a suburban apartment complex or condo complex, that was four storeys high, and I needed to take an elevator or go down a hallway. I wouldn’t feel that comfortable. And then you add civil unrest to that. And wow, it’s, you know, you got Well, it’s a one two punch, isn’t it?

Doug 3:57
Well, and I’ve actually been thinking about that a lot lately, because of course, you know, all the people in the media are trying to make it about, quote white America versus, quote black America or Hispanic America,

Jason Hartman 4:08
whoever you’re trying to make a race for when there isn’t one. It’s ridiculous.

Doug 4:12
But what it’s really about is affluent versus everybody else. Yeah. which incidentally, everybody else includes many people in, you know, in the Caucasian ethnic group who are disproportionately represented in the affluent class. Yeah. But one of the things that is really kind of popped out to me is that what we’re really seeing is we’re seeing the ultimate collapse of you know, what I call the middle class fiction, you know, of course, the middle class fiction, is that right? Okay. You know, you go to school, you go to a good college, you get a great corporate job, you go up have your career path, then you retire with a ton of money. And all likelihood, in all actuality, what happens is you go to college, you take up on a ton of debt, you might eat and you basically have a raffle ticket. And that raffle ticket says, Hey, I have a chance at a corporate job. But if I don’t get that corporate job, I will probably end up doing something that I didn’t need to go to college for everything I needed to know, I could have learned on the internet for free. So

Jason Hartman 5:10
you know, I just mentioned, I mean, I have my criticisms of Ilan Musk, but I’ll tell you one thing, he claims I was watching a documentary about him, he says he learned rocket science by watching YouTube. Isn’t that amazing? I mean, he is an engineer, okay. But we live in this amazing, it’s an amazing time to be alive, where we live in this amazing era, where your fellow citizens will just teach you everything, learning has become a peer to peer experience. And that’s just a wonderful thing. You don’t need a professor to teach you this stuff anymore. Now, in some cases you do for the credential, but not for the actual knowledge, necessarily. So you’re talking about that raffle ticket to the middle class fiction, right? Go ahead.

Doug 6:03
Exactly. Well, and so because what happens is right, you go through a normal career path, and you know, say you’re at a corporation, and you know, and he took on a whole bunch of debt, but you’re making good money. So you’re paying it off, it’s not a big deal, you get promoted a few times, you go up through the ranks. And then at some point, you know, something happens, like there’s 40 million people unemployed, and everybody needs to cut payroll, because, you know, the revenue just went down by 40%. Well, in all likelihood, what they’re gonna do is they’re gonna say, okay, who’s making the most money, those are the people who have seniority. And then at some point, you get your your, you’ll get pushed off the books, if you’re one of the extremely small percent that managed to make it up the high enough in the chain, to where you’re the one deciding who gets let go before a lot of people get let go, you might be able to make it. But again, that’s a raffle ticket inside of a raffle ticket. And what’s happened is, there’s so many people chasing after kind of this, you know, this paper fantasy, that it’s, you know, it’s escalating the cost of college, it’s escalated the cost of a whole bunch of other things, when in all likelihood, this is largely a delusion that’s all coming unraveled at the same time.

Jason Hartman 7:06
Yeah, sadly, it is the middle class fiction, that’s a really good way to put it.

Doug 7:10
Corporate America is not going back to what it used to be No,

Jason Hartman 7:13
nothing’s going back to what it used to be. This is a mega shift, folks. And I just recognized that pretty early, because for many years after this, there is going to be a degree of post traumatic stress disorder, a PTSD that is not going away with a vaccine. And it’s not going away with race reparations. And it’s not going away with Joe Biden as president or anybody else. It’s deep in the culture. And California is sort of a good example of this in a in a negative way. It’s a bad, but a good example of a bad thing. And what California my home state has become is a banana republic, and a Banana Republic is speaks of this, this concept, where you have the rich elite class, and then you have the peasants, okay. And the middle class has just been hollowing out for years. And what we’re here to help people do to guide them through this process of not getting hollowed out to help them get up into the upper middle class, or if they’re already there, to get up into the wealthy class. And there are various definitions of you know, ultra wealthy as usually considered $30 million net worth and above. And, you know, there are various tiers of this. But look, we want to be people’s guide, and we’ve done it for a couple 1000 people already. And hopefully we’re going to do it for someone new listening to to make sure that they are secure, and their lifestyle moves up. Well, the whole middle class has just been hollowed out, and it’s been going on for a few decades now. And it’s that middle class fiction. And the other thing is, we are going to have more opportunities as we did during the Great Recession. 12 years ago, I had a lot of listeners listening to the podcast, asking, you know, hey, Jason, I love everything you’re saying about real estate. But right now, times are tough. And I need a side hustle. I need another income stream so that I can do more investing. So I started making some of the podcast episodes about home based business opportunities and side hustles, if you will, and I’ve done that a little bit so far. Now, you know, we talked about the tax deeds. We talked about some other things that people can do to create wealth for themselves. And so you’ll see more of that coming up. But Doug more on that. middle class fiction and then let’s get to rent payments and inflation. We got some stuff to talk about there.

Doug 10:06
Yeah, sure. And the thing that I’m just really seeing, as you know, with all this coming on wound, you know, there’s been a lot of perceived stability in corporate employment, that is just coming to an abrupt end for a lot of people. And one thing that or opportunity A lot of people have is that, you know, if you have been displaced, you’re able to put your primary mortgages under forbearance. And the forbearance guidelines actually going to go for quite a while. So there’s a lot of people who really have an opportunity to remake their life, it doesn’t feel like it, it feels like your whole financial worlds coming apart. But there’s actually a really big opportunity that hope a lot of people will take advantage

Jason Hartman 10:43
of America is really good at second chances. You know, a lot of people have emerged from a history where they had real real struggles, and that it’s a pretty, like resilient economy, because it gives those second chances, or some other countries, you know, if you’re ruined once, you’re never going to have the chance to be ruined again. Yeah, in other words, you’re ruined forever, you know, you’re it’s over. But you know, the US is pretty forgiving like that. And that’s it. That’s a good thing, I guess. But remember, forbearance is not without its consequences, okay? If you’re wanting to buy income properties, the word on the street is do not enter a forbearance program, do not do that, because it’s going to inhibit your ability to get more financing for future purchases. And you don’t want to miss out on this opportunity here. As we experience what john burns called, The Great American move, we are in the midst of the great American move. While we’re at the beginning of it, it’s going to be hugely significant. And just, we’re going to share with you on an upcoming episodes about moving stats, and how the movers are doing if you’re in the moving business, if you’re in that industry, you’re probably already seeing that you’re very, very busy. Now, if you if you own a u haul franchise and rent trucks, you’re good for you. You’re gonna do

Doug 12:04
quite well, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Well, and because moving on to one of those things we were planning on talking about was just the rent stability. And one of the things that we were looking at was, you know, what’s the percentage of rent that was there was paid on time. And it’s actually really close to last year, I think we went from something like 82%, down to 80%. I mean, that’s an almost imperceptible,

Jason Hartman 12:25
it’s amazing, you know, Doug, so let’s be specific. So may of 2019 rent collections. Now, remember, this is going to be a survey of multifamily units. This is not for single family homes. Again, the reason for that is that single family homes don’t report to any big centralized place. So when they do these surveys, and this one is from the National multi family housing Council, that’s a trade group, okay. And so, you know, they have lobbyists, and they have conferences, and they keep statistics, okay. And what they’ll do is they’ll survey their big institutional landlords, and they will share the numbers on their rent collection. So again, single family home rent collection, I will guarantee you is far better than these numbers far better. Because I know we’ve noticed ourselves with our own clients. And in my own portfolio, I’m not having any rent collection problems, I expected it yet, the prints are all coming in. On the apartments, you have a more transient lower quality tenant base. So you know, collection is never going to be as good. And you’re always going to have more move ins, move outs, apartments are temporary, single family homes are more permanent, but may of 2019 at 1.7%, made their rent payment. Now, this chart doesn’t show how much time that was like. In other words, oh, well, it says weekending on the sixth of the month. So it does show that so by the sixth of the month, in 2019, May, at 1.7% of tenants in these large institutional apartments made their rent payment. Now fast forward. And Doug, I’ll let you share this one. May of 2020. Tell us what happened.

Doug 14:22
Let’s see. So when we come to May of 2020, the number is 80.2%. So that’s, it’s fairly insignificant. It’s nothing. It’s so nice. So

Jason Hartman 14:32
you’re saying to me, Doug, that one half of 1% decline deterioration in the rental market in May, year over year?

Doug 14:44
Something like that. Yeah, it’s let’s see, let’s look at the exact numbers. So for talking 81.7 down to 80.2. That’s 1.5%. That’s the net total deteriorate. Oh, sorry.

Jason Hartman 14:55
Sorry. You’re right. Yeah. 1.5% even

Doug 14:58
that, isn’t that I mean, Nothing. Yeah. In fact, even this Okay, so look at this in April, April rent collections were 78%. And they went up to 80.2. And so the decline from May 19 to may 20, is less than the increase from April 20. To may 20.

Jason Hartman 15:17
Yeah, significant. It’s, uh, the news media would love to make a story out of this, but there just isn’t a story there. You know, this, you know, where there’s a story is in the commercial world, I’ve shared that on the show, you know, that the commercial landlords are just not paying their rent, commercial tenants. I mean, whether it be an office space, I just read an article about all the law firms defaulting on their rent. You know, obviously, in the retail in the restaurant, rentals, they’re just not paying. So that’s landlords are really suffering there. But in residential, the home is the center of the universe. And people want to keep the home. And interestingly, even if they know, they can’t get evicted, at the moment, it seems as though they’re either just doing the right thing and being good moral people, good citizens, or they just don’t want to ruin the relationship with their landlord for future months. And that may be the other reason, you know, because those moratoriums have been lifting, obviously. So let’s, June over June. Tell us about June 2019, to June 2020.

Doug 16:21
So I’m gonna go June 2019. That was at 1.6% last year down to 80.8%. So this means that June is up 0.6% sequentially made a June and is down only 0.8%. year over year,

Jason Hartman 16:36
so so not even even a 1% difference. year over year. Now, in 2019. We didn’t have a pandemic, if this time of year, we did not have a race for we did not have civil unrest. And in the month of June, the rent collection difference by the sixth of the month is less than 1%. dug as they say. They say on the old Wendy’s commercial with a little lady. Where’s the beef? There’s nothing.

Doug 17:11
Yeah, there’s not a story here. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 17:13
yeah. It reminds me of that famous song from the 80s. Let’s give them something to talk about. You know, yeah.

Doug 17:19
Right. Yes. There’s

Jason Hartman 17:20
nothing to talk about here, folks move on. It’s just, there’s just nothing there. We’d like to give them something to talk about. But there isn’t a story. Okay, so rank collection is strong. Thankfully. That’s good news. Doug, we got to wrap up fairly soon. I think you you’re in a bit of a time crunch. But you want to talk about inflation real quickly.

Doug 17:38
Sure thing. So one of the things, beautiful chart that we saw, was looking at some different inflation by sectors and the sectors that had the high inflation. were, you know, groceries, meats, were medical care services, and then gardening and lawn care, you know, makes sense. Because all those are things that have been buoyed up by people staying at home. But then on the other hand, our lower inflation sectors or deflationary sectors have been energy, which has dropped like a rock, and then apparels, hotels, airlines car rentals, you know, auto insurance, you know, those things just all just plummeted. And one of the things I think that’s Yeah, exactly, is that all the areas that have been strong are areas that are associated with people at their home. And so I think what that’s doing is that’s really showing us that, you know, hey, in a really stressful time, real estate has, you know, the income real estate that we recommend has tremendous resilience. You know, as I’m fond of saying, right? You don’t really know if the strategy works until you have a stress test, right? And you don’t get stress tests, all that often. Anything can look good when you’re in you know, when you’re in a growing market, but it’s when you have a big disruption that you find out whether what you’re doing makes sense. So it’s really you know, I

Jason Hartman 18:55
think it’s all Warren Buffett or Charlie Munger who says, It’s when the tide goes out, you can see who’s wearing a swimsuit or not right or

Doug 19:03
time goes out to you find out who’s swimming naked in folks. I

Jason Hartman 19:06
mean, look, it couldn’t be worse than this with what’s going on in the world. But it couldn’t be much worse. I mean, yes, we could have a war. And there are definitely tensions. I mean, we’ve got North Korea, again, going off the deep end, we’ve got Iran. There’s definitely geopolitical concerns. But we have a global pandemic. We have civil unrest, not only in the US, but all over the world. We have austerity measures. I mean, the world in a lot of ways it doesn’t look very good right now. Okay. And, and yet, we see all this. Let me just give you a soundbite on each of these charts. Okay, so, higher inflation sectors food up 4.8% groceries are at the highest price in five decades. I’ve totally noticed that myself as I’ve been shooting Hoping I go to Trader Joe’s. And just anecdotally, that I buy pretty much the same pattern of groceries, I don’t change it too much. Anecdotally, Trader Joe’s, I get two bags of groceries. And you know, I’d have some wine in there and some nice things, and it’d be 100 bucks. Now, it’s $160 I did not change my cart around that much, or what’s in those bags? I’ve definitely noticed that myself. I know everybody listening house. So meat prices up 11.7%. Now, that one, you know, you got to take that with a grain of salt because there have been specific problems to the meat industry. So that one’s a bit of an anomaly. I don’t want to say that’s inflation based completely, but healthcare medical services up 5.9% who says there’s no inflation? This is crazy. Like you said, Doug, gardening and lawn care up 9.7% I don’t know why that is that doesn’t seem like it would be a Coronavirus related. Any thoughts on that? One?

Doug 21:06
I think it all has to do with the fact that people that are out there are stuck at their house. And so they’re trying to take care of you know, they’re they’re trying to take care of the property. I know for us, I’m okay. Yeah, go ahead. Well, and so in this case, right. You know, if you’re talking about gardening and lawn care services, now’s the time to do projects, right? If you’re stuck at home, it’s a time to do projects. Whenever I go to Home Depot or Lowe’s, the place is just packed. Just people Oh, yeah, there’s people that are getting stuff for doing home projects all over the place. I know because I was at Lowe’s trying to get the polymeric sand for doing a project at our back patio about a month back.

Jason Hartman 21:40
What is poly Eric sand,

Doug 21:41
it is sand that has plastic polymers in it. So what you do is you put it in between paver stones and then when you get it wet then the the polymers bond together as a self sticking sand got it got

Jason Hartman 21:53
it isn’t that boy technology’s everywhere is an

Doug 21:57
amazing time to be alive. But yes, technology stand as

Jason Hartman 22:01
the home is becoming the center of the universe. People want to make it nice. I’ve been saying this for a couple of months now. home improvement projects. I not specifically like I haven’t been to a hardware store like you have. But you know that that doesn’t surprise me too much remodel projects. Okay, that’s gonna be big soon. Or just moving instead. That’s the easier one and furniture stuff for the home. If you’re in the home goods business, you’re going to do pretty well. Okay, let me think about

Doug 22:30
it like this. Jason, if you live in a apartment or condo in the middle of a city, then moving is the ultimate remodel project. Right? Exactly. Because Yeah, what you’ve done is you’ve just gone from a 500 square foot elevator shared, shared living space to say a 1500 square foot detached house at the property. Yeah, that is the ultimate remodel. And guess

Jason Hartman 22:53
what, it’s a major upgrade to your life in so many ways in your rent went from 30 $800 a month to 15 $100 a month. Yes. So it’s much better and you have a yard too. And you can get a dog bound. So there you go. Okay, so low inflation sectors, energy energy’s been crushed. We all know that because people haven’t been moving around. So Oh, we saw oil prices totally collapse, energy usage. Now the interesting thing about the electrical energy, okay, there’s many types of energy, okay. But the grid has been stressed because everybody being at home uses more energy than everybody being at an office because it’s not communal. You know, people when they leave their house, they wouldn’t run their air conditioning all day. Yet, everybody’s in their individual bubble running it instead of in a common office where it’s, you know, more efficient, and you can cool more people for much less cost and much less taxing many less kilowatts, but energy for industry and manufacturing, the demand for that just plummeted for quite a while, but it’s coming back, as we know. So energy down 18.9%. Okay, now, apparel. We mentioned this on the show before, but if you talk to apparel companies, they said that apparel for the top half of the body was still selling pretty well. But for the lower half of the body wasn’t selling, meaning people were on video calls, care what they look like, for me. That is the funniest thing ever. But anyway, yeah,

Doug 24:36
that that is a that is actually an amazing anecdote. And one of the things I was thinking on the energy side too, that’s that’s very interesting is that if you have electrical transmission energy, electrical is one of the forms of energy that is that they’re actually the most options that don’t involve hydrocarbons. And so one of the things that you have with this is you do have an opportunity for an inflection point in trying to reduce overall carbon output, you know, no, this is of course, you know, assuming that the objective is to reduce carbon output and not to use carbon as a shill to have an authoritarian government, right? Like they already have that it’s called COVID. They, you know, they don’t need to use us climate change for that anymore.

Jason Hartman 25:17
Like the saying goes, green trees have red roots. Okay. So yeah, so now they can do the authoritarian intrude on our lives and tell us what to do thing, because they got the guise of the virus to hide under rather than the environment. So yeah, they can switch, wag the dog, you know, Hey, everybody, you need to see the movie, the old movie from the 90s wag the dog right now I’m gonna watch it again. Because this whole COVID thing and race war is the two giant wag the dog things if you asked me, it’s getting quite interesting. Go ahead.

Doug 25:51
Oh, and the thing that I was thinking of, though, is that the notion of, you know, the climate changing is real, you know, and you know, the impact of carbon is real. I think the place where that’s, you know, where it’s always falling down is just the assumption that an authoritarian government is the only way to deal with it. You know, if you give the government unlimited authority to deal with the climate, it won’t fix the climate, you’ll just have an authoritarian government with a climate that is pretty much just as bad as it was before or worse,

Jason Hartman 26:16
because nobody owns the, if you don’t have private ownership of things like we saw in communist Russia, the you know, when Greenpeace went in there, I remember reading Greenpeace magazine, right after the Soviet Union fell. And they went in and toured the Soviet bloc, you know, Russia and the other countries, and they just saw environmental destruction everywhere. And the the article basically, that the net of it was that when people and this is from Greenpeace of major left wing group, okay. The net of it was when people don’t own property when they don’t own the land, they don’t care about it.

Doug 26:53
So correct. So yeah, I think just the the dynamics of what we’re seeing are just just utterly amazing. And I have at least a modest idea of how they’re going to how it’s going to shake out, you’re going to have, you know, especially in things like airlines, I highly doubt that airline, of course, because airline prices have gone down like 30%. And there’s idle capacity everywhere in the aerospace industry. And so that means you’re probably going to have at least one major carrier that goes out of business, you’re going to have prices stay extremely low for a long time, just because there’s just so much idle capacity, that you know that there’s going to be intense competition to try to keep those planes anywhere remotely close to full. Yeah. So yeah, there’s going to be very long lasting impacts from all this

Jason Hartman 27:38
air, air air travel right now. And this is TSA, so it’s not worldwide, but it could be non domestic flights where someone has to clear TSA, the number of passengers is only 17% of what it was one year ago. And that and it’s already coming back. It’s better than it was it was really bad during the worst point in the lockdowns, but right now, it’s 17% of last year’s number. And yeah, that’s still I mean, that’s a catastrophe. So yeah, so apparel down 7.9%, hotels, motels and lodging, down 17.3% and airfare, Doug, you just said it down 28.8%. Car and Truck rental that you mentioned, down 19.2%. And what’s interesting about that, one is that car and truck is not split up. And I say that car rental will remain very cheap. By the way, if you’re looking for a used car, go to hertz.com they are selling 1000s of cars. I looked at a few I was thinking maybe I should pick one up there so cheap. You know, you got these. There’s just a lot of a lot of good deals. Those cars, it was pretty attractive, like truck rental, I say will actually get very inflated during the Great American move. Now. They’re not distinguishing what type of truck but if there any thing that’s a moving truck, or a construction truck, you know, that’s boom, time for that. Yeah, no, it’s not split up. So in motor vehicle insurance, because nobody’s driving down 14.3% but rent, CPI, the consumer price index for rent, year over year, up 3.5%. Up 3.5% in the midst of all that rents are up after seeing

Doug 29:39
that Exactly, exactly. One thing what all this comes back to is that it’s like you said it really is an amazing time to be in life, an amazing time to be alive. And it’s an amazing time to be an income property investor. I mean, boy, the economy just got shellacked. And our properties have just held up beautifully. And their position right in the middle of where everybody’s moving to Yeah, I

Jason Hartman 30:00
know we’re right. Since we sell suburban properties, and this is exactly what everybody wants, we are in a very good position. I mean, I shouldn’t say we, I should say you listening, if you’re assuming you’re following our advice, our plan our guidance, you are in a very good position. I gotta tell you, I’m just going to be very candid as we wrap it up here, folks. You know, I had a, you know, a heart to heart talk with one of our investment counselors. I mean, we’ve talked, of course, Doug, but this particular talk that I’m going to recall right now, was with Sarah, and, you know, I said, Sarah, you know, we may have to make some really tough decisions in the next six months. As this broke out, I was worried. I mean, I didn’t know where this was gonna go. None of us really even now know where it’s going to go. But one thing we know for sure, is that Well, a few things we know for sure, I guess I should say, housing is the center of the universe. People can work remotely. They all have discovered that people can learn remotely, they don’t need to go to an office, they don’t need to go to a school, they can do all that remotely, and they like it. And they’ve adopted it. And suburban migration is huge, huge, huge. Yep. And interest rates are low. We know that too. So take advantage of it, folks. And Doug, on that note, I’ll let you wrap it up.

Doug 31:22
Basically, we have the strategy. We all know what needs to happen. And now’s now it’s time to pull the trigger. If there was ever a time to do it, now is the time to do it. It’s not that crazy low prices from from foreclosures that we saw in 2010. It’s the crazy big migration trend that are going to eventually make the prices and rents we’re seeing now just seem like pennies.

Jason Hartman 31:46
Yeah, I agree. Okay, Doug. Well, thank you very much. And if you need us, we’re here for you, to guide you to assist you on your path to building wealth through income property, reach out to Doug or any of our other investment counselors at Jason hartman.com. or by calling one 800 Hartman if you’re in the US, that’s only a US phone number one 800 Hartman if not catch us on the internet, Jason hartman.com. And until next time, happy investing.

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