Compensation from CEO to Worker with Dr. Richard D. Wolff

Jason gives us an update on housing demand and talks about the migration towards the suburbs. He discusses how this trend was happening prior to the pandemic and that COVID-19 is simply accelerating it. In the next segment of the show, Jason hosts Dr. Richard D. Wolff as they finish a discussion from the previous show. They talk about the disproportionate pay between workers and a company’s CEO.

Announcer 0:02
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 0:54
Welcome to Episode 1503 15032 Today we have part two of comrade Richard D. Wolf. Hey, I tease him, but I like this guy. I think he, I think he’s got some good points, the Marxist professor, and Hey, didn’t move the needle yesterday, did you become a Marxist? I thought I have any Marxist listening to this show. But maybe one or two, you’re always out there, right? You’re always out there reading your copy of The Daily worker, and plotting for the communist takeover of the free world. So here we go. We’ll get into that in a moment. But first, we have an important update about homebuyer demand. And one of the ways that you can assess a lot of the homebuyer demand is simply by looking at the number of mortgage applications. So let’s talk to one of my favorite reporters, Diana olek. With CNBC and hear what she has to saying about this. So let’s get to breaking news on the housing market. Diana olek has the latest report on mortgage applications.

Jason Hartman 2:07
Hey, Diana. Hey Joe. Yeah

Diana Olek 2:08
after a brief pullback at the end of June, homebuyers rushed back into the mortgage market last week, taking advantage of yet another low more record low mortgage rate mortgage applications to purchase a home Rose 5% for the week, but were a remarkable 33% higher than the same week one year ago and that’s according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, seasonally adjusted index and another adjustment was made to account for the July 4 holiday. Now the average rate on a 30 year fixed fell to 3.26% from 3.29. From wow down Wow. Well, prices are continuing to heat up given the very tight supply of homes for sale. And we saw that in the average purchase loan size increased to $365,700. That is another record high now applications to refinance a home loan which are generally more sensitive to weekly interest rate most there was just point 4% from the previous week, but what 111% higher than the same week one year ago, refi demand has been so strong for so long and interest rates have been as well. So there are now a limited number of borrowers left who could benefit significantly from even that new record low rate. It seems like we’re getting another record low mortgage rate every week, Becky.

Jason Hartman 3:17
Now, of course, we’ve talked about how we have the lowest interest rates in over 3000 years. I’m assuming the records that they kept 3000 years ago, were not as good as the records today, but you know, we’ll just take their word for it, the rates are pretty darn low. So what Diana olek was talking about there was very prescient based on what’s going on today. But note, the number she mentioned that $365,000 number, that was the loan amount, not the house price. So if they’re putting 10% down, or 20% down, remember that’s just 90% of the price of the house or 80% of the price of the house, as the case may be. So it’s pretty amazing. And doesn’t that make the properties that you are buying through our network that you’re finding at Jason slash properties? Doesn’t that make those prices seem just totally amazing? Yes, it does. Yes, it does. So we’ve got one, maybe two more announcements to get to before we get to our guests today. But first, I wanted to play a clip from one of our meet the Masters speakers, and that is my friend George gammon, who by the way is going to be in Florida this weekend, and I’m gonna be hanging out with him and we’ll be talking about some, some big ideas for you. He got a flight out of Colombia, which is amazing. He said that was really, really hard to do. So here he is, and he’s going to give you a little educational preview about the upcoming masters talk. You heard him on the show before and it’s my pleasure to welcome George gammon back just for a brief discussion of what he is going to talk about at her upcoming meet the masters of income property conference. This is the first time we’ve done it virtually it’s our 22nd anniversary event. And George, we are so excited to have you tell us what you are going to be sharing with our attendees. Well, I just can’t wait first and foremost, Jason to get there and share hopefully what’s going to be some knowledge bombs and some serious value with your listeners with your viewers of the people that are going to attend this virtual conference. So the first thing I’d like to talk about is something that nobody understands and I think it’s just gonna blow people’s mind. And that is in the most recent tax bill that came out in 2018. The tax bill that we thought lowered people’s taxes actually is going to increase people’s taxes substantially. Over the long run, so how is this going to happen? Because they switched the CPI measurement, and that’s the rate of inflation for the tax brackets. So if they increase the tax brackets too slowly, in other words, they use a rate of inflation that understates the CPI dramatically, then the tax brackets will move up slower. That means you are going to pay more and more of your income to the government over time and I won’t go into great detail. But trust me, this is something that everyone is going to want to find out about take notes so you can prepare in the future. So you’re not getting ripped off by the government. George, that is fantastic. I saw you talk a little bit about this before with your famous whiteboard and you’re great with the whiteboard for sure. That is a super important topic. And it is amazing, the kind of really sleight of hand that the government plays with The IRS with monetary policy with fiscal policy. It’s just incredible. And it’s so important that people understand this, isn’t it? It absolutely is. Because as real estate investors, we can take advantage of certain tax opportunities. We’ve got depreciation. I mean, you go into this and a lot of your videos, and I’m sure we’ll be talking about it more at meet the Masters, but we’re going into an environment in the United States where taxes are going to increase, I can almost promise you that whether it’s corporate taxes, or there’s income taxes, or maybe capital gains tax. So you need to be cognizant of what’s going on. Because you’ve got two options right now going into the future. You can either be prepared or you can be a victim and Personally I’d rather be prepared. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we can’t wait to have you and it’s your first time speaking at meet the masters. We originally folks had this scheduled as a live conference. It will be live now but it’s virtual, but it was going to be an in person physical conference. I guess I should say, in Southern California, and then we postpone that and turn it into a virtual event. So here we are, George, we can’t wait to have you. And thank you again for joining us. And I’m sure the audience is just going to be really looking forward to what you have to say. So thanks again. All right, buddy. Well, I can’t wait to see you and everyone else, July 31, August 1 and August 2, we’ll see you there. You got it. Looking forward to it. So I hope you were excited about our upcoming meet the masters and I know you are because a lot of you have been buying tickets like crazy. This virtual conference makes it a whole lot easier than a physical conference. So very excited about our 22nd anniversary. This is the 22nd time we’ve done this event, but the first time we’ve done it virtually. And we’ve just been getting all our technology in order to make this a real pleasure for you. And I think it is going to be just that. Of course. We announced Sharon lechter to the speaking roster yesterday and we have Have a big new announcement. But you know what? I’m gonna make you wait for it. It’s a famous person, and it is a great real estate mentor will announce that one probably on Monday. Okay, so just wait for it, wait for it, you’ll love it, you’ll you’ll be very happy. Don’t worry about that one. And this one was just confirmed yesterday, but I just got to work out a few details and make sure the time and date work for the mystery speaker but you’re gonna love the woman out on Monday. Oh, by the way, early bird pricing ends. I believe it ends tomorrow night Friday night. So get your tickets quickly. Jason Hartman comm slash masters, then we’ll go to the second earlybird level. So it’ll be you know, a little bit more, and then there’ll be one more level of earlybird before the event. So we have been talking a lot about current events and what’s going on in the world. And two things I want to share with you before we get to our guest and we do part two of Marxism and the One is that this crazy, crazy world we live in this woke world where the hypocrisy just rains down on anybody with any degree of intellectual honesty.

Jason Hartman 10:17
It is raining cats and dogs have hypocritical, self interested stupidity. And here is yet another example of so many. Well, you’ve heard of the band Lady Antebellum and they decided that suddenly, their name of their band was somehow not woke enough. I guess it was just too racist. So they had to change the name of their band. So they changed the name to Lady a, that is the name of the band, and they tried to work out a deal because that name was actually taken. They tried to work out a deal with another African American performer who already was using that name herself she called herself lady a and I guess the woke hypocrite scumbags it Lady Antebellum did it like that they weren’t able to be woke enough and get full clearance to use the name lady a okay because there are a bunch of leftist virtue signaling fakes. And so even though I do like a couple of their songs, so good job lady a or antebellum or whatever your name is, I bet the courts are gonna side ladies not available to you. But guess what they did. They are now suing the poor African American lady who already owns the name. So here is a tweet I’m looking at Lady Antebellum decided to change their name to Lady a, because they’re woke now, only to find out that a black artist already existed under that name. So now they’re suing to use the name anyway, because they couldn’t come to a deal with her leftist virtue signaling in a nutshell. Unbelievable. That is truly unbelievable. I think we should start a legal fund for the original owner of the name lady, a the African American performer and help her fight this battle with the bullies Lady Antebellum to keep her rightful name. That’s like another form of police brutality. Its intellectual property brutality. That’s exactly what they’re doing. Oh, unbelievable. just unbelievable. Maybe she’ll start a GoFundMe campaign and we can all donate money to her because boy, I’ve I feel sorry for that the the woke virtue signalers just, you know, they want to steal her name some believable, and you know, they might get away with it because they have way more money than she does. I’m sure they’re a famous band with you know, many big hits. Okay, so we’ve talked a lot about the mass migration to the suburbs, the burbs, and it is continuing. But guess what? The firm the real estate firm Cushman and Wakefield, you’ve probably heard of this firm. They’re a big deal. They’ve been around a long time. I think ever since my career started probably way before that, hey, I’ve been doing this a while, in fact, over three decades, so that’s a long time. They say in this article at globe street calm that the new found interest in the suburbs is not so new. Since 2016, the gap in cost between get this cbgb I’ll get to that in a moment. And suburban office, meaning office space for you know, renting office space has receded from a high of 68% according to Cushman and Wakefield. Now, this is just a sideline, but you know, I really get an Well, What don’t I get annoyed about I get annoyed about everything. I get annoyed about leaf blowers. I get annoyed about Wall Street criminals. I get annoyed about real estate criminals. I get annoyed about woke Lady Antebellum scams where they’re bullying people around with lawsuits. I get annoyed by all kinds of things. Okay, I get annoyed by food labels, whether they’re lying to you, and they’ve got 67 or whatever names for sugar, when they should just call it sugar, but they’re just

Jason Hartman 14:34
trying to deceive you and poison you with more sugar. And don’t get me wrong. I love sugar, but it’s still a scam. So I just don’t like the scammy part of it. If I want to eat some sugar, just call it sugar and all eat it anyway. Okay, because it’s addictive. And I’m addicted to it just like anybody else. Right? Okay. So, it amazes me. When people use these acronyms, and they assume it Everybody knows what they mean. I have been in real estate for a long time. I have negotiated many, many commercial property leases. Of course I’ve done a ton of work in residential and had hundreds of tenants owned properties in 11 states and all that kind of stuff right so I have a long resume. But believe it or not, I did not know what that acronym was CBD I thought it was the marijuana thing right? You know, like CBD oils that you keep reading about and hearing about. Know, CBD stands for central business district. Nowhere in this article does it say what that means. Unbelievable. just unbelievable. annoying, hashtag annoying. Okay, so anyway, the article goes on to say as the pandemic rages on both companies and their employees, they are looking to the suburbs for salvation, the theory being that wider spaces In the city outskirts will make social distancing that much easier. By the way, that’s not a theory. It’s a fact. Okay, but you can still call it a theory if you wish. As a result, companies are dusting off playbooks to reconsider the hub and spoke site selection model meaning of their offices, not just for their own corporate purposes, but also to accommodate their employees. By the way, this is a better deal for everybody. Because the office space in the burbs is a lot less expensive than in the city. And so is the housing so they can afford to be way more competitive offering even lower wages to people living in the suburbs, because it’s if their cost of living isn’t as high, then the benefit a bargain accrues to both parties, the company and the employee, just like doing business in a business friendly state that’s less expensive to operate in. You can pay your employees less and they can still have a great life. So that’s the thing. Well, this trend is real, it would be a mistake to think that it kicked off with COVID-19 A new report by Cushman Wakefield makes the case that the rebirth of the suburbs was well underway before the pandemic. Instead the Coronavirus accelerated the process that had already started. I agree with them. The Coronavirus has accelerated a whole lot of things, a lot of technologies, a lot of adoption of technology and the move to the suburbs. So the article basically goes on to talk about something that we’ve reported on over the years, that millennials are obviously moving into their housing formation stage of their life because they’re getting older. Hey, the oldest millennials about 40 years old this year, right? So they’re not kids anymore, even though some of them are woken clueless and not all, but you know, a lot of them remember the millennials are the first most brainwashed generation they’ve been brainwashed with the woke, elitist school system and the woke elitist University. government debt enslavement complex By the way, did you see the ridiculous thing that even if you go to Harvard remotely, and you’re looking at a screen on your laptop, you have to pay $48,000 to go to Harvard this fall? Unbelievable. What a complete scam that is a scam. And why is it that Harvard has this multi zillion dollar endowment and

Jason Hartman 18:28
and they have tax free status. This is insanity, that we allow these universities to just rob us. They are robbing a whole generation of young people from their future. They are requiring them to have a mortgage without getting a house included. It is ridiculous. The student loan scam is ridiculous. Do you know that one professor at Harvard, say take economics For example, one economics professor could teach economics to the entire planet Earth. Everybody in the human race could learn economics from one professor. And they could charge each student $1 $1 to attend and get a college degree. That’s the way it should be. Technology has lowered the cost of almost everything except things where they have a fake Iron Triangle monopoly, like the college government debt enslavement complex. This is a massive, massive scam. And at the same time, these universities are brainwashing people. It’s like this elitist brainwashing scam. Don’t get me started. I get annoyed by everything, don’t I? Yes, I do. I do. But it’s you know, it’s good to be annoyed. Because if you’re not annoyed and dissatisfied about something, then nothing ever changes. Okay? It’s not so bad. Join me in your annoyance. I’m actually quite a happy, jovial person. Well, sometimes, but then I get annoyed. Okay, so anyway, the point is, the suburban trend was already there, and COVID accelerated it. Yes, that’s the point of the article. That’s the upshot. It’s all you need to know. So go look at those suburban properties at Jason slash properties. And while you’re there, get a ticket at Jason slash masters for upcoming meet the masters. Let’s get to part two and talk to the professor and learn a little bit more about another viewpoint on Marxism. So where do we go from here? I think we’d all agree that things are pretty messed up unless you’re Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, whatever. We would all agree that it’s you know, and then lou dobbs book, which I quote off and war on the middle class from years ago. He talks about how the rank and file worker versus this the C level executive pay, it’s astronomical, how out of proportion that is nowadays, compared to how it was years ago. I mean, it was it was in line, you know, the head honcho always gets paid more that’s we get that right. Nobody would object to that in principle, but the proportion is staggering. What jamie diamond work makes, versus one of his his serfs. Right? So how do we solve that? I mean, it’s we got to redistribute wealth, right? That’s the only way you do it.

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 21:31
A few months ago, maybe a year ago, I was on a fox news townhall. And they had two of us on the left. And then they had, they have four big shots on the right, one of which was lou dobbs. And after the last an hour of the show, after the show was over, Lou Dobbs was eager to talk to me, which I found interesting. Hopefully

Jason Hartman 21:54
your dogs would not disagree with you completely.

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 21:56
He was taken with me Usually it was very friendly and all that. But that’s what he wanted to talk about. Yeah, he was. He and I both. I think I had made some comment about how back in the 1960s, the CEO got 50 or 60 times. Yeah, now it’s

Jason Hartman 22:13
like 400 times. Yeah, that’s right.

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 22:15
Yeah. 400 is where it is now. And there’s no rational basis, right? I mean, you’re not gonna argue he’s that much more productive than it’s just silly. And he and I agreed on that. And I said to him, you know, if you had a democratic way of deciding on salaries, the workers themselves could be counted on to pay more to people they thought were more crucial to what the company did, had maybe some skills had to go learn for a while in the university to acquire that. They wouldn’t give everybody the same amount of money. They get that Yeah.

Jason Hartman 22:55
No, no, I agree that they do the good Pat. Yeah.

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 22:59
He looked at me With this funny look, I don’t want to put words in his mouth. He didn’t comment on what I was saying one way or the other. But you know, being a teacher on my life, I look at the students eyes, I looked at his eyes. I don’t I mean, I don’t mean this to be critical because I had a nice talk with him. I don’t think he had ever thought that way. I mean, he, when he asks himself, well, that’s the CO ops

Jason Hartman 23:23
idea, right? The company, the employee owned company concept, right?

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 23:29
But no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not ownership. Okay. When I say Co Op, I’m talking about what the better word would be directorship. The workers become collectively their own employer, their own board of directors. This is complete, you know, you can have an employee stock ownership plan, and we have many of those workers get, you know, X percent of the shares or something like that. The problem with that is, whenever you think of it, per se, is that the work is are usually either in fact, incompetent or unsure of how to run a company. So what they do as owners is the same thing anybody does as owners, you basically vote for turn over the company, to your delegate delegates, your your board of directors and you elect

Jason Hartman 24:18
a representative Republic concept. That’s right.

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 24:21
That’s right. And so they do that too. And then what they look at their shares the way most shares small shareholders do, this is a source of a quarterly check. Beyond that, I don’t give a damn I don’t know what’s going on in the company. I’m not involved. Yeah, I bought it because my broker told me it was a good deal and something like that. So I’m talking about when workers literally become the collective directors, designers, they run their own business. They don’t even have to own

Jason Hartman 24:52
a company with 80,000 workers really do that is everything voted on. I mean, sure. They I mean the problem is in those employees Stock own companies that you mentioned a moment ago. We have that all over the place. And because of the separation of the C level executives and the boards of directors and what’s known in laws, the business judgment rule, you know, it’s like Congress, they can just give themselves perks endlessly. And you know, there’s no accountability for that. Yeah, they could maybe vote them out, but that’s part of it. So how do we do that? How did what’s the real mechanics of that?

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 25:29
Let me answer it by describing to you a company that has done it, because we don’t have it in the realm of me. I don’t want people to imagine I’m suggesting how it could be done. Okay. I prefer to be the messenger who tells you how it’s already been done. All right, probably the single most powerful and successful. A worker Co Op in the world is called a mundra gone Corporation. It’s based in Spain. And in the city of Mondragon, which is a small city in the north of Spain in the fall. hills of the Pyrenees mountains. In 1956, a Catholic priest gave a famous talk in a little church in Mondragon. And he said to the workers, they’re very, very poor part of Spain. If we wait for someone to come here and give us jobs, we will all die of old age before that happens and everybody laughed. And then he made his pitch. He said, Let’s become our own employer. There are six of you in this room who are carpenters or whatever the hell they were. Let’s start a co op, we will employ ourselves. So he started in 1956, with six workers and the Catholic priests. Today, that company has about 130,000 employees. It is the seventh largest corporation in all of Spain. It is organized as a family of about 200 or 250. Individual worker co Ops, doing manufacturing services. a whole range of activities. And they organize each of those businesses, as a worker Co Op, where all the decisions are made collectively by the 50 to 500 to 10,000 employees depending on what it is give you an idea of how they’ve succeeded six people in 1956 130,000 that would be the envy of any capitalist Corporation, such a level of growth number two, along the way they competed with many capitalist enterprises, and they out competed them eventually ended up absorbing them, their workers, their use materials, their equipment. Number three, they have a rule that the highest paid worker in a co op across 130,000 cannot get paid more than eight and a half times what the lowest paid was. They have no Inequality like the United States in those parts of Spain, mostly in the north, where they are located. Okay, once a year they have an assembly with a workers vote on the supervisors, not the other way around. The workers vote whether to retain a supervisor or to let him or her go. It’s an extraordinary development. I have gone there myself. So I’m not only talking about reading about it and all that visited that place, blows my mind very well organized, correct? Yes,

Jason Hartman 28:36
it is. It’s doable. Okay. So I’ve got to ask you, though, when I asked you the question a moment ago, where do we go from here? We’ve got this, as people, especially on the left, like to talk about this wealth inequality gap. And I don’t disagree with that. It’s, you know, it’s not just, it’s not just like any quality, it’s much more nuanced and complicated, because, you know, it’s this percentile. Map percent. You know, it’s it’s very complex, right? But the fact is, the rich have become ultra mega mega rich. And I saw you on the interview with stuart varney and you were saying, you know, Jeff Bezos is giving away some money. That’s a drop in the bucket. Bezos has got to be the least charitable Scrooge of any I mean, he is so wealthy. Now Bill Gates is like the opposite end of the spectrum. He’s got his agenda too. But whatever, you know, at least he and Buffett are actually doing something philanthropic for real, but these houses, it’s like a trinket, okay. And it took them forever to get around to it, by the way, too. So you know, I’m pretty critical of Vika. Bezos, he, he treats his workers like crap. It’s a I mean, what do you do the only power that has that is able to change anything like this is government government has to say there’s a law. And hey, Jeff, if you don’t do this Co Op thing, or if you don’t give some of your money away Here’s a gun and a jail cell. I mean, that’s it. That’s what a law is. Right? So what do we do? Where do we go from here?

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 30:07
Well, you have to look for me. I’ve always had this disagreement with my libertarian friends. I understand that the government, in my view, the government is complicit with big business. And it has been for a long time. And I understand why. If you’re going to have a tiny group of people sitting at the top of society with the kind of obscene wealth you and I agree they have, if they’re stupid, they will imagine that that’s something they can simply assume will last for a long time, but I don’t think they’re stupid. I think they understand they have a problem. If you’re going to be wildly rich in a society that allows universal suffrage, everybody gets a boat, then you have a risk. And the risk is that the mass of people who are being screwed by

Jason Hartman 30:56
pitchforks eventually, you know, it’s a we have this plutocracy See or kleptocracy now, and, you know,

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 31:03
when they get the pitchforks, they have the vote. And they can use the vote to undo the economic consequences of what the rich are arranging for themselves. So the rich have understood. And I know this because I’m among the people that are occasionally approached by them for advice. They have understood they have to manage the political system, or else it will undo them. So they hire an army of lobbyists, which is much more powerful than our votes. That’s right. And so for me, the only solution is you have to mobilize the working class of people, those who are excluded from this wealth, those who are excluded from the role of the employer and say to them, you have to organize yourself. You have to mobilize yourself, then and only then will you be able to shape what the government does. So we can do The kinds of things you and I might agree would be good for the government to do. What does life look

Jason Hartman 32:05
like? Does that look like a labor union? Does it look like Elizabeth Warren? What does it look like?

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 32:10
Well, we’ve seen no, it could be could be something new. I’ll give you in a minute, an example of something that might be the beginning. In traditionally, in the last hundred and 50 years of capitalism, it has basically taken two parts, two forms, labor union, organized labor, and political parties, Labor Party, socialist parties coming and all that, yeah, they’re taking those two. Now, there is something which I find very interesting, called the yellow vest movement in France over the last year and a half, which is neither. It’s not a union. It’s not a political party. It is its leadership is very determined not to do that. But it wants to constitute itself as an ongoing social change engine. And it is France at least and granted France as a as its particulars, but in France at least it is stunningly powerful. It has endured now for a year and a half, which is itself a major achievement. It is constantly approached by the unions and the political parties, by the way, not only on the left, although it’s mostly the left. Marina lapan, which is the far right in France also, is trying to get a place in the yellow vest. So they keep all of them at bay. They don’t exclude them, but they do not let them take over which is in a way what they want. So you may be seeing their the beginnings of another form in which but the success of the of the yellow vests I think, is what you’re talking about. Because despite having no infrastructure, no Treasury, no accumulated, sells and all the rest of They were able to mobilize people in France, to the envy of both the labor movement and the left political bodies, in terms of a number of people that commitment, etc. So that’s right now in process, they’ve been quiet because they can’t get together because of the corona. But France is now opening up faster than the United States. And so we may receive that, but I see a variety of efforts. I see them coming in this country as well, to try to figure out how to mobilize and organize the mass of people, because I think everyone recognize that’s the only hope to have some real change. Otherwise, whether we have a Trump or a Biden, this is neither of them is going to change any of this.

Jason Hartman 34:52
Well, that I agree with. It’s just moving the needle a little bit. There’s no dramatic change. Yeah. Interesting. Well, Richard, give out your website. Your capitalist website.

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 35:01
Yeah. We have websites and we also you can

Jason Hartman 35:06
while your books free Why are your books free?

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 35:12
On YouTube you can find us at Democracy at Work. Well, that’s our channel on the YouTube. We have a weekly radio and TV show every week for half an hour. That’s been going for a decade

Jason Hartman 35:24
90,000 subscribers now. Yeah,

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 35:26
yeah. Oh no, no 150

Jason Hartman 35:28
no, I’m looking away. I’m looking at Richard D wolf. Maybe.

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 35:33
Okay. Different Yeah, Democracy at Work is the one you want to look at. Our website is Democracy at Work again, all one word Democracy at Work dot info. And you can also find me at rd Wolf with two F’s at And that will be the easiest way and we welcome people to look at all this stuff to communicate with us. We have a very active Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, you name it. We’re doing it Good stuff. And here’s the best part like you might be intrigued. I’ve been a critic of capitalism pretty much my adult life. Over the last 10 years, I have done more invited public speaking than in the previous 40. The United States has become open and interested in these critiques, in a way I never thought I would live to see. So you’re talking to a person who is being carried along by a current that is very strong, that I did not think would last but it has. Hmm. It’s a heady time for people like me, we’re back in the political reality and conversations of America in a way we haven’t seen for a long time.

Jason Hartman 36:46
Well, that’s what happens when American workers don’t get a pay raise for four decades. Okay. And And listen, I don’t agree with you in the sense that I like capitalism. I just don’t think we have capitalism. You know, but you know, the, you know, The Soviets the Soviets could argue we don’t I like Marxism, Marxism, but we don’t have Marxism. So I get it. You know, this is very nuanced. There’s a lot to it, obviously. But Richard, very interesting. Yes, the millennials, they definitely love they lean socialists. They lean modern monetary theory and all that kind of stuff, which you know, I’m sure. I’m sure there’s a big demand, like you said for for years. So, good stuff. Thanks for joining us today, folks. That’s Richard D. Wolf. Thanks so much for coming on.

Dr. Richard D. Wolff 37:26
Thank you very much. And I look forward to doing this again, because all conversations are should be part of what the evolution of our society now needs and will benefit from

Jason Hartman 37:37
workers the world unite. Never thought I’d say that on the show. Thanks, Richard.

Jason Hartman 37:48
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